[Rtech]

Whew, this is gonna be a long one!

Originally Posted by imjimmy

So it follows that Baleno will be VFM only when it retails down from the current exshowroom price of 5.8L to the esteemish levels i.e 4.7 L exshowroom. Where as the NHC( with it's 8 valves 77 bhp SOHC engine) retailing at close to 7L exshowroon is good VFM?

No Jimmy, nowhere have I mentioned that the NHC is "value for money". All I said was that by other manufacturers pricing their old products that high, they leave a window open to the others to price their new models a bit higher. Its a game of chess. And they are not out to do any favours to the Indian public. The fact is that even at this price, Honda cannot cope with the demand. Now why on earth would they want to drop the price and get an even longer waiting list, which eventually leads to unhappy customers.

Originally Posted by imjimmy

By the same token it seems that it's a henious crime to sell cars that have not gone a exterior/interior makeover. Does it always mean that a newly designed car always looks good.

Is the NHC a beauty to look at from the outside? IS the Innova or the santro good looking.. that just goes to show that all new designs are not the best.

IF you go by looks alone in the C segmant, then no one would look further than a Lancer. THe car reeks of class from the exterior and the interior. It did when it was launched years ago and it does now.

I find the previous 7 series a better looker than the Bangled one. Does that mean the current one is crap and BMW should keep selling the old one? Looks are a highly subjective topic, BUT the fact that the Santro and NHC still sell in such large number EVEN THOUGH they look wierd is testimony to their basic product itself.

A newly designed car may not always look better than the previous one, but its very rare that it would be worse off technically. Just look at the fabulous packaging of the NHC.

Originally Posted by imjimmy

So what's wrong with the Baleno? IS it just bcoz it was designed years ago. THE vxi model retails with a 185/65 tubless tyres. I am sure the Lxi will follow suit soon. As for the interiors, there's nothing that spending a few bucks won't cure.

You are now making excuses for a car. Understandable seeing that you drive one. But as I don't drive either, I can take a more unbiased overview of them.

If I spend Rs.6.5 lakhs on a car, I don't then want to spend more on wheels/tyres, sprucing up the interior (what can you do besides change the colour of the dashboard? ) just to bring it a bit more up-to-date. That's what the company should have offered in the first place.

Originally Posted by imjimmy

For most people the most important consideration before buying a car is the engine , performance and maintenance. An underpowered engine is something that you'll be hard pressed to correct.The Baleno as a 10 yr old product still has an engine that can put most of the modern cars to dust. It's the only car that can hold it's own against the OHC 1.5.

It's obvious thats not true in the Indian market. As mentioned earlier by amit, there are other factors that matter more when it comes to buying a car. If it were the engine that mattered most, the Palio/Petra 1.6 would be topping the sales charts. Do you really thik a second here or there matters to 90% of the buying public?

Originally Posted by devarshi84

when Honda discontinued the old city it was a real blow to many people out there. the sales were strong and the car was still receiving rave reviews. The 1.5 gave good FE as well as performance. Now the NHC only gives FE.

I agree. And the OHC has always been the NHC's strongest competitor (as strange as that may sound!).

Originally Posted by devarshi84

as Shuvc mentioned somewhere about the bad behaviour of Honda dealers. Landmark Honda in AHmedabad was so rude with some potential customers the one guy acutally went ahead and went to Baroda to get his car. To talk about good customer service from Honda.

Taking the exceptions to the rule is not right. Honda has consistenly been at the top of JD Power rankings. There must be a reason for that. Plus, our own members - GTO, Shan2nu, ajmat and a few others have nothing but praise for their dealers.

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Shuvc showed the thai city costing at 5.65 which is much less but Honda charges a premium because it knows Indians will pay for it.

How much of that "premium" could be attributed to Govt. imposed taxes?

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Petra and Ikon and baleno are selling at rock bottom prices. Hyundai is bringing in the new accent within the same price bracket. Mitsubishi cedia is priced in the same range as thai model but honda charges a premium for no reason.

Petra price! Well, we all know the turmoil Fiat is in, so they could probably sell it at 3 laksh and still noone would buy it now. Ikon and Baleno have been on sale in this market for far longer than the NHC. What were their prices when they were launched? The Cedia is not on sale, so we don't know its on road price. Neither do we know the new accents price.

The only reason they can sell at these lower prices now is because they have been selling the same car for years now, so its simple economies of scale. If Ford were to think like Honda, they would discontinue the Ikon once the Fiesta is launched. But, all they do is lower the price of the Ikon to make place for the Fiesta. And we all sing praises of the new low price.

Granted the current sales figures of cars in India do not encourage quick model changes, but when a manufacturer does take the brave step of actually replacing one model year with its successor, we all jump on them! Maybe Honda should not have bothered and sold the OHC at the price of an Ikon and priced the NHC at 9 lakhs (or vice-versa). Apparently we are all used to this system of working!

Originally Posted by devarshi84

If Honda wants to do justice to the Indian people they should price the NHC in competition to the baleno(maybe 20k-40k more to justify its new car designs) and give added safety features like airbags and abs

As mentioned above, they are not here to do charity. Their cars have 3 month waiting lists. Why on earth should they lower the price?

However I agree on the ABS & airbags issue. Its about time these become mandatory on all cars above Rs.6 lakhs. (atleast).

Originally Posted by devarshi84

but does that mean that Honda should forget its responsibility and give an inferior product in great new clothes?? On top of that a premium.Wow

Besides being down on power and not quite the drivers car, the NHC is far superious to the OHC in every single aspect, including the price! What you seem to be saying is that you would have been happier is the OHC was given a price drop. Essentially you are telling the world to dump their outdated vehicles in India just because they may be prices Rs.50,000 less! Wow! Thats what you call limited vision and failing to look at the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by sajo

The main trouble with the NHC is its fine predecessor. OHC had a major role to play in creating that perceived halo around that 'H' badge.

So true!

Originally Posted by adya33

just in a same way if Honda starts selling Accord at the price of C class tomorrow no one will buy
its the brand value & I see nothing wrong with companies charging more for it

Totally agree.

Why do people by brands? Because the brand is supposed to be a sort of guarantee. It puts the users mind at ease in the thought that what he has bought will be reliable, functional, well made etc etc. A brand takes years to build and when a company wants to capitalise on its brand value after decades of effort to build that, can you blame it? How different are a pair of Levis to a pair of some unknown brand? How different is a Nike to a Power shoe? Why does a Swiss watch cost so much more than a Casio? They both tell time and would be equally reliable.

There will always be people who look beyond a brand and buy something else (Gurkha seems to fit that bill after reading his posts on the G wagon forum!), but majority of the public do not want to take the time and trouble to study each and every car in the market. They know that by buying a Honda, they are assured peace of mind, and that to them may be worth the extra money. Its taken Honda and Toyota decades to build up their brand, and now they are in a position to command a certain respect. They do run a business at the end of the day.

Unless NHC uppgrades and starts looking into its product deeply someone is going to upstage them soon. Its time the japs spend some of the money earned from NHC to pay back to the Indian Public what they have stolen.

Baleno is full value for money, most of the money earned from it circulates in India and can anyone name one car G L O B A L L Y which has a value-proposition like this?

Ok, now you've gone waaaaay off the actual topic of the cars themselves! AMR, you seem to have an axe to grind.

Originally Posted by msprabhakar

Baleno vs NHC will be an endless debate, as endless as Cong vs BJP!

Lol!