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Old 6th July 2011, 11:28   #1
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Default Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Hi all,

For sometime now we have been observing individual OTRs by few offroaders. On the first go, it is good that offroaders are becoming confirdent of their machines and skills. On the other hand, we feel that these offroaders lack team spirit and often land up in trouble with locals, authorities or with their vehicles and unpreparedness.

It is not mandatory that only moderators should call for OTR event. Any body wish to organise can just post the invite on the forum/group so that all offroaders take view and confirm.

We have observed some of the offroaders have tried to do OTR in Uttara Pinakini and Avalakonda area. These areas are sensitive in nature from villagers, Local authorities and forest department. Uttara Pinakini river bed is one such spot where MP Sreenivas is trying to get permission from local authorities for organising next OTR with challenging hurdles this time.

We request members here not to indulge in Individual OTRs and land up in trouble and disgrace to the group/forum.

Let's go as group and enjoy offroading.

Dwarak
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Old 6th July 2011, 12:22   #2
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Default Small Groups

Hi Dwaraka,

You have raised a very interesting issue.

There are a few issues why people go in small groups.

1) They don't know anyone else and have just bought a 4x4 and want to try it out.

2) Vehicle specific OTRs - Gypsy OTRs, Gurkha OTRs etc.

3) In a larger group, there will always be sub-groups/cliques, who have a better communication, camaraderie amongst them, hence they prefer to go with their gang, this is a common phenomenon.

Can we stop it? NO

Who are we to stop it?

Sometime these enthusiastic groups, go to previously recced OTRs spots and create problems, and later on the locals don't welcome us there, sometimes we have been chased away and pelted with stones.

Can we do anything about the above? NO

So what is the solution?

1) Organised OTRs -

i) Where the OTR has an Objective;of completing a trail or maybe trying out particular type of obstacles, instead of let go out and see what is happening Here/There.

ii) Time Limit - Half Day/Over Night

iii) Criteria - Vehicles need a certain degree of preparation excluding 4x4 (Tow Kit/Tool Kit)

Then comes the big question who will organise, who will lay out the criteria, who will check the preparedness of the vehicles.

All the members have to be included in the "task" or "role" otherwise some will feel left out and thereby the processing of forming cliques start all over again.

If the pros & cons are explained clearly, I think most off-roaders are pretty frank and mature enough to understand and follow basic guidelines and even contribute to them.

If you are suggesting a monitoring system? then who will monitor and how will you deal with someone who is errant?

I think it is better to appeal to logic and explain your point when these things happen during the OTR, everyone co-operates.

Regards,

Arka

PS - If the Trail/Route is grinding & tough and all are well occupied, no has the time to get funny
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Old 6th July 2011, 12:46   #3
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Arka,

I was expecting your comment. Got it. let the group spirit prevail.
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Old 6th July 2011, 13:55   #4
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

So you are basically saying, as citizens of this country, we are not allowed to drive on public trails? If members are going on private land then of course its an issue, but if its a public place not notified by the govt to be off limits(national park etc.,) then anybody has the legal right to take their vehicle there. Just because of a few locals who are trying to extort money, people should not back down.
Near Delhi, there is no such villager problem.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:33   #5
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

I dont think this forum or anyone here can stop or prevent one from having individual OTRs. People are free to participate in large organized groups, non TeamBHP groups or smaller groups. If they get pelted, land into trouble or whatsoever that is still their problem.

What next, no individual road trips permitted anymore by members, as one may drive fast, rash and so on, and thereby bring a bad name to the community?

Peace. It is a noble intention, but sadly no one can oppose this. No one will listen to this and is a violation of ones freedom

Last edited by thedreamcatcher : 6th July 2011 at 14:34.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:40   #6
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

^^ @thedreamcatcher, I agree with your opinion here.

I dont think we can term some meets as official meets and others as unofficial, especially if we are all members. Perhaps, this situation can be improved by publishing a list of dos and donts for OTR meets. If one already exists, we can ensure that the missing points are updated there.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:42   #7
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So you are basically saying, as citizens of this country, we are not allowed to drive on public trails? If members are going on private land then of course its an issue, but if its a public place not notified by the govt to be off limits(national park etc.,) then anybody has the legal right to take their vehicle there. Just because of a few locals who are trying to extort money, people should not back down.
In the south there is no such wild public land where one can go and do whatever. It is either private or belongs to village panchayat or forest department. Only the roads are truly public, offroad isn't. Therefore, permissions are inevitable.

Therefore, when some offroaders trespass private/forest land, they piss off the local authorities and that shuts the door on future OTR activities in the area. People like Arka/Dwarka/Sreeni/Tejas/Kunal who organise large events know the importance of local permission and co-operation.

Last edited by Samurai : 6th July 2011 at 14:50.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:47   #8
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Perhaps, this situation can be improved by publishing a list of dos and donts for OTR meets. If one already exists, we can ensure that the missing points are updated there.
Here you go : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-b...able-meet.html (How to have a successful and enjoyable meet) a brilliant one by sam.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:54   #9
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Thanks rjstyles69; this is exactly my point.
The thread you have provided does not have a section for permissions to be taken from private owners for access. I understand this thread isnt specific for OTR meets, but covers general lunch/ dinner type meets.
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Old 6th July 2011, 14:57   #10
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

What I dont get is how do people manage to get on to properties which they don't know about.

We had this issue on beaches, every car used to try and get on the shoreline. Its banned and not allowed still we see people doing it.

I think lack of respect for others property is the issue here, about it affecting a forum is really secondary.
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Old 6th July 2011, 19:26   #11
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the thread title that "Individual OTRs kill team spirit".

I always do individual OTRs (with 2 - 3 other 4x4s along) and rarely participate in a large group OTR. I just prefer to offroad in a smaller group and certainly do NOT think I'm killing any team spirit by doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaraka View Post
On the other hand, we feel that these offroaders lack team spirit and often land up in trouble with locals, authorities or with their vehicles and unpreparedness.
Says who? My group hasn't got into any such trouble in 10 years of off-roading. Sure, on the rare (read = RARE) occasion that a problem cropped up, we have solved it amicably and to either parties satisfaction.

I don't see the need for any kind of generalisation applied to those that prefer individual OTRs. And let me assure you, it's easier to maintain discipline in a smaller group than one that's large & scattered.
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Old 6th July 2011, 22:28   #12
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Hi GTO,
I think Dwarak intends to say that few (read as one or two vehicles) branch off from the main group during large OTRs, and sneak off to do thier own OTR, yes perfect,nothing wrong there,but this becomes unmanageable especially when they go the unchartered territories away from the gaze of the parent group. We saw an instance at recently concluded OTR in pinakini,where the same precisely happened. The locals chased us down,caught up with us and demanded explanation, ofcourse they were convinced with us as dwarak and Srini handled that part brilliantly is another thing.

I feel that we as seniors must break ice with new comers,as many many times,we meet them only at meeting point where hi's and hello are briefly exchanged and then we all rush off to OTR point and there we do our own thing. If time were not a constraint, atleast for 2-3 day event,newbies should be met up with a day prior for informal chat to check their mental and vehicle preparedness(taking cue from Arka) for the OTR.

Andy
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Old 6th July 2011, 23:15   #13
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Hi GTO,
I think Dwarak intends to say that few (read as one or two vehicles) branch off from the main group during large OTRs, and sneak off to do thier own OTR, yes perfect,nothing wrong there,but this becomes unmanageable especially when they go the unchartered territories away from the gaze of the parent group. We saw an instance at recently concluded OTR in pinakini,where the same precisely happened. The locals chased us down,caught up with us and demanded explanation, ofcourse they were convinced with us as dwarak and Srini handled that part brilliantly is another thing.


Andy
Andy, you have someone specific in mind? Because you mentioned the pinakini otr. If it is someone specific, you must mention their names because they are ultimately creating a problem for all offroaders according to you.

As punishment, these truant offroaders will be made to spend the whole previous day with you and receive gyan on do's and don'ts during OTR's.

EDIT: I think I found the truant offroaders in question. Can anyone help us identify them by ID'ing the vehicles?
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Last edited by Red Liner : 6th July 2011 at 23:38.
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Old 6th July 2011, 23:36   #14
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

Dear Redliner,
A lot of well meaning folks turnup at the OTR, but tend to wander off with new found friends or as Arka said,into small groups,the challenge as Dwarka says is to keep everyone together and not let anyone go ahead and make a complete fool of themselves and larger part of the group itself. As seniors,instead of rushing into the OTR, we should initiate newbies with basics and ride with them ,encourage them to see and learn what other seniors are doing. By ignoring them,we may lose them and then the purpose is lost.

Andy

PS: You will comprehend all these things only when you come to an OTR.
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Old 6th July 2011, 23:45   #15
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Default Re: Individual OTRs Kills team spirit

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Originally Posted by Grace View Post

PS: You will comprehend all these things only when you come to an OTR.
Andy, actually I go for my own private OTR's. All by myself. Alone. But I manage well. Because I HAVE A TOW ROPE.
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