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Old 17th July 2012, 11:14   #1
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Default Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Hi Guys,

I'm starting this thread to give my suggestions on Land Use (Forest Land).

In the recent past many off-road events have come under the scanner.

The most common factor was use of Forest Land.

Do we really need to go into forest land?

What other options do we have to conduct off-road events?

All over India, we have various kinds of quarries & mines, sand, clay iron ore, coal etc.

We can use abandoned quarries/mines (very popular in UK & Europe)

We can use LIVE quarries on their holidays. (Popular in Europe/Australia/Africa).

We have got a similar suggestion from a well-wisher in TN, and seriously considering the prospects.

We can use private land/estates (popular in UK/USA/Australia)

The permission process will be much easier, the environmental impact will be much lesser.

This will also remove the disadvantage of traveling huge distance in big convoys, attracting unwanted attention.

IIRC EXAMM?AKC 2010 Day#3 was in one such mine with the owner present during the event.

Sudarshan JEE, Dr. Mohan, AbheekG, Roy Sakaria, MPSreenivasan are well versed with environmental regulations, I would request you all you give your suggestions.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:28   #2
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

If OTR is held on private land, is permission required from the Authorities, or just the land owner?
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:37   #3
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

I also feel that using forests for events should be given a pass. Given the little of forests we are left with.

And if live/abandoned mines were to be used for off roading then Bellary will become Mecca of Off-roading in India.
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:38   #4
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If OTR is held on private land, is permission required from the Authorities, or just the land owner?
Hi TSK,

Speaking from my experience.

Depends on the profile of the event.

Depends on how the neighbours react/support the event.

What is the rapport with the local population.

Are you serving liquor on premises?

Are you using a PA system?

It is always better to inform the local authorities that there will be a groups of vehicles/people visiting the property from a security perspective.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by GTO : 18th July 2012 at 16:59. Reason: Typo
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:38   #5
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

What a thread!! brilliant!! I was contemplating starting one such a thread and here it is! thanks buddy!

Absolutely agree with you, off-road use just isn't well defined here in our country. Any vacant place, forest area happens to be a play ground for people with their mean machines.

This should stop. Below are points that I think should be enforced by the government to have a check and control on this activity.

1) Mark areas clearly where any kind of off-road activity can be organised
2) Off-road activity in protected areas should be penalized (just the way the forest department does if you venture into reserve forests without permission)
3) Deploy authorities to check for any kind of damage to flora and fauna after the event and penalize organizers if any damage is found
4) Levy extra tax on these events for wasting precious fuel for fun
5) Only registered organizers to hold such events and ban individuals from venturing into protected places (unless provided permission) unless the land belongs to a private party

Last edited by vinair : 17th July 2012 at 11:39.
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:43   #6
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
4) Levy extra tax on these events for wasting precious fuel for fun
[
By your logic, using your vehicle for any other purpose than commuting for work etc., should be taxable.
So going on a holiday? Extra tax.
Going to visit friends? Extra tax
Going for a drive? Extra tax

And why restrict to vehicles?
Wasting precious electricity while posting to team-bhp? Extra tax.
For example, you must have kept your computer on for making the post. You should refrain from wasting electricity, and keep your computer off unless required.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 17th July 2012 at 11:44.
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Old 17th July 2012, 11:56   #7
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If OTR is held on private land, is permission required from the Authorities, or just the land owner?
From what i understand its not that simple. Though it is the best rather easiest way to remain slightly protected.

For example - trees even inside a private property are marked/numbered and one cannot just chop them down when we feels like.

OR

You could be having a river passing next to your property or may be a lake adjacent which could be harmed/contaminated in an OTR activity.

On the other hand you may need to pass via some restricted zone or even a public road but according to the authorities you may be causing inconvenience/hazard to the general public around by moving around in such huge groups/convoys (for which permits are required otherwise).

So unfortunately its a never ending list of issues that we will have to face with the local authorities/forest officials/environmentalist etc as they can bend/twist the situation and find a way to get involved (for obvious reasons even if no one complains)

A little OT but...The obvious actions -
1. Be honest to yourself, do not harm the environment in any way...but obviously continue to off road :-)
2. Take all possible permits before hand
3. Involve the police and the forest guys and get them to be around during the event
4. Use private property for the main activity
5. Do not travel in huge convoys, space it out
6. Please add....

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 17th July 2012 at 11:59.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:02   #8
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Default Interaction with the Local Population

Hi Guys,

I think the local population can be the biggest source of support for any outdoor event.

How can we involve the locals?

How do we need to interact with the locals?

Address them according to their age, but always respectfully.

Treat them as your equal in all aspects especially intelligence.

Dress appropriately, a good outdoorsy shirt and cargo pants can create a hell of an effect.

A little chit-chat about the terrain, rains, crops, cattle is a good ice-breaker.By asking them routes, explaining the concept of off-road, outdoor, teamwork & even 4x4. Makes them feel intelligent and worthwhile, because you are taking time to explain complex concepts.

Taking their permission, before entering into any terrain/territory. they will usually be the best guides, they will inform you if it is legal or illegal, or whom the property/land belongs to.

During the event address the local spectators respectfully, and they will do anything thing for you.

Post event offer a lift or a ride to the kids, and they will spread the best stories, which will ensure a good & lasting public memory.

Offer drinking water to the locals. Never food stuff.

If you are stopped on the road by a crowd. Stop all vehicles and explain your presence and activity, and usually the crowd dissipates.

Give the villagers/locals right of way on their roads. DONT drive any more than 25kmph, at that speed you can stop on a dot for anything.

Ask them to provide fruits/vegetables at various obstacles at payment.

In many off road forays we have organized the locals in a cheering squad, egging on various participants, and feeling happy about the whole thing.

The off-roads are usually on weekends, even the local population need some POSITIVE entertainment, if we provide that without stepping on their toes. The outcome is fantastic.

Don'ts

Offer to pay for their time as a guide.

Offer them foodstuff. They are not used to our food and vice versa, can lead to an upset stomach and the resulting conspiracy theories.

Make payments to religious functions or donations to temple to secure the local support for the off-road.

Drive brash & rash in village roads.

Regards,

Arka

Please add or omit anything I have overlooked.

Last edited by ex670c : 17th July 2012 at 12:09.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:03   #9
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
By your logic, using your vehicle for any other purpose than commuting for work etc., should be taxable.
So going on a holiday? Extra tax.
Going to visit friends? Extra tax
Going for a drive? Extra tax

And why restrict to vehicles?
Wasting precious electricity while posting to team-bhp? Extra tax.
For example, you must have kept your computer on for making the post. You should refrain from wasting electricity, and keep your computer off unless required.
Levy extra tax on these events for wasting precious fuel for fun

Pasting the line again I said, extra tax on such events! I don't think people would mud plunge every time they go on a holiday, visit their friends or just go for a drive?

Off course I pay my electricity bills as per my consumption? we all do right? the more I use, the more I pay? works?

And, never in our school days have we read how we could replenish fossil fuels? have we?? Though I remember we could still generate electricity to a greater extent! So I can still use all my electronic gadgets to my will and that of course includes using Team BHP as well!
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:14   #10
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Default Re: Interaction with the Local Population

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

Don'ts
Please add, Don't liter the area with plastic.

The same was conveyed in the recent event in Wayanad, participants still threw plastic covers all along the trail.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:16   #11
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
Pasting the line again I said, extra tax on such events! I don't think people would mud plunge every time they go on a holiday, visit their friends or just go for a drive?
They would still waste extra fuel for a fun activity, right? You were talking about fuel wastage
Quote:
Off course I pay my electricity bills as per my consumption? we all do right? the more I use, the more I pay? works?
Oh, I think there is some confusion. Offroading requires engine to be on. So they also have to pay more as they use more fuel. I think your suggestion can apply to people using bicycles, since they escape this extra tax
Quote:
And, never in our school days have we read how we could replenish fossil fuels? have we?? Though I remember we could still generate electricity to a greater extent! So I can still use all my electronic gadgets to my will and that of course includes using Team BHP as well!
Majority of electricity in many parts of India comes from Coal(Polluter). People using electricity has created a demand, so govt is buiding dams in eco sensitive zones. Just imagine the amount of trees cut and forests destroyed so that you could switch on your computer.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:18   #12
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Default Re: Interaction with the Local Population

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Guys,

I think the local population can be the biggest source of support for any outdoor event............Please add or omit anything I have overlooked.

Great inputs Arka completely agree with each of the points. These should really come from within each one of us.

Would just like to add another aspect to your list.

When we travel in convoys of say maybe even 5 cars (MT tyres) on the village roads depending on the type of soil and the rain faced by the location, the only road the village has could get drastically impacted. In turn it would also impact the day to day life of the villagers as the only road they have will become difficult to use.

We should really take care of this aspect and in some way try to resolve this issue. If there are no other options we could go to the extent of actually hiring a road roller and fixing the road post the event. This will convey to the villagers that we care for them and their village/property.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mac187 View Post
Please add, Don't liter the area with plastic.

The same was conveyed in the recent event in Wayanad, participants still threw plastic covers all along the trail.
Completely agree. I really dont know when we Indians will seriously from within accept this as our basic responsibility. I have seen enough plastic thrown even in the interiors of Ladakh, one has to be really thick thick skinned to do that.

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 17th July 2012 at 12:46.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:37   #13
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
They would still waste extra fuel for a fun activity, right? You were talking about fuel wastage
The event, 'La tomatina' was banned in Bangalore not because tomatoes were precious or we import them, but the event was all about wasting something so very meaningful in a country where food is still a luxury to a good amount of population. Now having said that, we all do waste the same tomato in one way or the other, but, the intent here is not to waste it solely for a purpose. Hope this clarifies.

Quote:
Oh, I think there is some confusion. Offroading requires engine to be on. So they also have to pay more as they use more fuel. I think your suggestion can apply to people using bicycles, since they escape this extra tax

Agreed, the more I use, the more I pay and why I pay the more?? because its cheap! Can I ask my dear friends to burn petrol on these machines and then mud plunge??

Quote:
Majority of electricity in many parts of India comes from Coal(Polluter). People using electricity has created a demand, so govt is buiding dams in eco sensitive zones. Just imagine the amount of trees cut and forests destroyed so that you could switch on your computer.

Agreed and glad we are aware of this and yet, we want to contribute our share in destroying or damaging this fragile ecology??

Last edited by bblost : 17th July 2012 at 14:04. Reason: Please avoid commenting within a quote. Please break it into multiple quotes as its improves readability. Thanks.
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Old 17th July 2012, 12:47   #14
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Default Re: Interaction with the Local Population

Excellent topic for discussion, especially after some recent fiasco's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

Please add or omit anything I have overlooked.
Also, I feel one's ability to converse with locals in their language can sometimes act as a real differentiating factor. Those who have experienced this first hand will realize the importance of this point.

Quote:
Dress appropriately, a good outdoorsy shirt and cargo pants can create a hell of an effect.
LOL, reminds me of someone.

Spike
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Old 17th July 2012, 13:53   #15
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Default re: Off-Roading in India & Forest Land Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Guys,

I'm starting this thread to give my suggestions on Land Use (Forest Land).
Its a very good thing , let some brain storming happen

Quote:
In the recent past many off-road events have come under the scanner.

The most common factor was use of Forest Land.

Do we really need to go into forest land?
No we don't
its us the educated people who need to take lead in conservation

Quote:
What other options do we have to conduct off-road events?

All over India, we have various kinds of quarries & mines, sand, clay iron ore, coal etc.

We can use abandoned quarries/mines (very popular in UK & Europe)

We can use LIVE quarries on their holidays. (Popular in Europe/Australia/Africa).
you said it , additionally it can be held in a stadium ,

We need to forget the use of Govt land , without paying a penny


Quote:
We can use private land/estates (popular in UK/USA/Australia)

The permission process will be much easier, the environmental impact will be much lesser.

This will also remove the disadvantage of traveling huge distance in big convoys, attracting unwanted attention.
A very good thing , very desirable one

Sudarshan
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