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Old 19th July 2017, 16:16   #16
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

Storme with psurelia did best because it had those awesome AT tires and psurelia steered it where there were no/few tire marks. It always helps if you are fresh/first into mud.

I know he wasn't first but his steering inputs were good.

And this is tame BP, with monsoons, why not a proper OTR session?
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Old 19th July 2017, 18:09   #17
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
This is very odd. Did she manage to get out by reversing?
Yes the XUV was able to get out by reversing. There was no problem with the XUV in slush as long as the 4 wheels were on ground. We could clearly see the power transfer working fine when one wheel was loosing traction. The issue was happening when one wheel was going up in air.

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Originally Posted by Samir Taheer View Post
Nice write up about the HEXA. I will be tempted to buy it when they release an AWD Automatic.

Does the Hexa use a Haldex system?
Thanks Samir Tahir. As far as I know, the Hexa uses a Borg Warner system to transfer power to the front wheels. I am not too sure about the details. Will try to find out and update.

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Thanks a bunch BlackPearl for putting up a thread like this. Have always been looking for something like all over the internet but never found one.
........

A friend of mine got an XUV W10 AWD in the last week of June with pre GST benefits. I asked him why he did not consider the Hexa or the Innova and his reply was that the AWD in XUV is from Range Rover and way superior than the one on Hexa and I was like

Probably this thread is what he should look at now
Thanks a lot centaur. If he is a friend I would not show this thread. Once the decision is made there is no point in putting the person in buyer's remorse . Also a lot of thought process goes into buying a vehicle, so the ability of crossing a ditch or not might not be the only point that is taken into account. The XUV has a lot of things going in favour of it and like all cars there will be negatives as well. Last year we had taken an XUV AWD on proper sand pits and inclines and it had performed flawlessly there.

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Originally Posted by lazy View Post
Thank you for this thread.
Such threads provide incredible value to readers in terms of real world capabilities of these vehicles and go beyond technical specs, reviews and feature comparisons.
Superb effort.
Thanks a lot lazy!

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Originally Posted by sadnabrina View Post
Nice thread BP. Thanks for posting.
Thanks sadnabrina. We get to learn new things everyday by posting on team-bhp.

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Originally Posted by YoungSaint View Post
Wow!what an amazing thread. I am a great fan of off-road videos and a subscriber of AnshumanBishnoi's and Sumitro's Channel on youtube. I saw all the videos by Sumitro in the morning and also left a comment on few videos. Kudos to all of you - you all enjoy the AWDs and 4x4s the way they should be enjoyed. I am in Kolkatta from 21-23 July and I would have loved to join you guys but other commitments would not let me

P.s.: I saw Anshuman's XUV AWD on the team-BHP classifieds the other day and god knows, if I had the money, I would have bought it instantly. May be some day I would have spare 8-10 Lakhs and I would buy a AWD or 4x4 and join you guys on the off-roading sessions. Till then, keep on posting mouth-watering videos.

- A sincere fan
Thanks a lot YoungSaint for the nice words. I am elated

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Hexa seems to be a clear winner. Thanks for sharing all these videos. This will help the whole community who is planning to buy a car in this segment , especially whose who are skeptical about TATA(HEXA). Given the value of 20 lacs one can make a list of components and features that go in, in the hexa and with this kind of performance clearly its a segment winner - Value for Money
Thanks amit_mechengg. I would not say that Hexa was a clear winner, but definitely it is more capable than people initially thought it to be. Yes, at 19 lacs onroad and with the features provided, buyers will not feel short-changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcroadster View Post
You guys seems to have had a lot of fun! any comments on cabin noises in HEXA while moving on undulating terrain? my XUV squeaks like a rat during rock crawling.
Thanks Mcroadster. There was squeaks or rattles inside the Hexa. Even the XUV did not have any rattles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autoholic View Post
However, the power was transferred to the rear wheels of XUV as the rear wheel can be seen spinning when the camera pans at around 32 seconds into the video. This means the system was working in XUV but isn't fully equipped for the situation.
Yes the system worked well in slush, but the moment one wheel went up the XUV started facing problem. In slush where all wheels were on ground, we could see that the traction control was working perfectly switching power between the wheels.

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Storme with psurelia did best because it had those awesome AT tires and psurelia steered it where there were no/few tire marks. It always helps if you are fresh/first into mud.

I know he wasn't first but his steering inputs were good.
Yes, the tyres are simply superb. This Storme had done a few off-roading sessions in previous years with stock Bridgstone Dueler HT tyres and the it used to get stuck quite easily if momentum was not maintained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
And this is tame BP, with monsoons, why not a proper OTR session?
We did a proper monsoon OTR and Samba had put up the report -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...ml#post4223123 (Pics & report : Offroading with Kolkata Offroaders)

Many of the obstacles in this terrain would have been too harsh for the Hexa, XUV and Duster. Even the Scorpio was getting under-body hits while climbing a table top.
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Old 20th July 2017, 00:55   #18
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

You all seriously have so much fun. Missing them.

Hexa is a really nice car, and I do recommend it to quite a few. However, I guess TATA as a brand is yet to build that confidence for people to consider them specially for a car over 15L. Everyone appreciates, stops to see one, takes a test drive however shy's away to sign the dotted line. At the end it's a Creta they buy.

On a lighter one, didn't dip27in try the slush with any of his cars. Am sure the drift would have been a spectacle for all to see

Last edited by Altocumulus : 20th July 2017 at 00:56.
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Old 20th July 2017, 10:38   #19
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

Top class Sumitro. The way you have put it, is very unbiased and unemotional, that's what liked the most. "Not telling a friend negatives once he has already bought a car" , very nice thought indeed. Really enjoyed from this side of the screen, perhaps some day will get to the other side of the screen. Till then, keep them coming.
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Old 20th July 2017, 10:43   #20
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post

Thanks a lot centaur. If he is a friend I would not show this thread. Once the decision is made there is no point in putting the person in buyer's remorse .
Absolutely, and I have no intentions at all of showing him this thread myself. I just meant in the sense that he should probably stumble upon this sometime. It was more on the lighter note actually

To be honest, I thought of sharing the XUV niggles and fixes thread with him just as a ready reference but then thought against it as I felt it might spoil the "new car" experience for him. So did not send it. If at all he faces any issues and comes to me, I know what to do though
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Old 20th July 2017, 12:24   #21
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

Nice thread as always BP. We all had a lot of fun that day. Hexa caters to the crowd who are not into serious offroading anyway. But this car can take you on long trips without breaking a sweat & then also go to places where 2WDs can't. The things I don't like in Hexa are van like sideview & feeling of less power. Somehow, it doesn't feel like 400 Nm.


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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post

Similarly Duster AWD comes with shorter gearing for AWD variant, it helps compensate for lack of low range gearing reduction to some extent but it still remains a compromise. Too short first gear can be a disadvantage, like some of the sand terrains we do, the first gear in Duster is too short, the car does not gather enough momentum to take on a tall sand dunes, but as soon as you shift to second the car bogs down. So if you are going to be go offroad frequently, get a car with low range gearing, just because of low range the car has so many gearing options for such climbs like if I were to take it fast Ill take 3rd of Low, if slightly slower 1st of high, if the car is bogging down previous 2 gears there is 2nd of low, for recovery in sand or crawling there is 1st of Low, in a Duster/XUV/Hexa there is only one gear for all of it.
+1. Duster/XUV aren't off-roading vehicles to begin with. There are specially built vehicles in the market for that.

While, we are on ESP topic, do check out this video at 0:18. The rear left tyre locks to prevent oversteer.

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Old 20th July 2017, 12:29   #22
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post

While, we are on ESP topic, do check out this video at 0:18. The rear left tyre locks to prevent oversteer.
That's part of ESP, it will brake individual wheels for checking understeer or oversteer, but the same car without brake traction control wont act wont brake individual wheels as part of traction control. Another example old Fortuner vs new Fortuner, old one did have ESP with traction control but no brake traction control, new one includes brake traction control and Toyota calls it A Trac. Similarly Jeep calls it BLD, we even managed to defeat that system, traction control has limited abilities, I have spent time studying and experimenting various tranction control systems, latest being new Endeavour and Jeep Wrangler, so I know what I am talking about and I am not making any guesses here.

Last edited by .anshuman : 20th July 2017 at 12:33. Reason: Added something
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Old 20th July 2017, 20:45   #23
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

Great compilation guys ! BTW, is this area to the rear of New Town Action Area 1D ? Did I see the Jal Vayu Towers in one of the videos of part-2 ?
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Old 21st July 2017, 09:48   #24
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

This looks like a Tata Motors factory Hexa registered in Pimpri. Is this a test drive car at a dealer in Cal?
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Old 21st July 2017, 12:46   #25
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Yes the XUV was able to get out by reversing. There was no problem with the XUV in slush as long as the 4 wheels were on ground. We could clearly see the power transfer working fine when one wheel was loosing traction. The issue was happening when one wheel was going up in air.
Applying the foot brake (left foot) and part throttle on that XUV might also have helped. Brakes artificially introduce traction on the lifted wheel and gets some torque to reach the grounded wheel.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:18   #26
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
You all seriously have so much fun. Missing them.
Yes, weekends in monsoon are fun when you have the right bunch of people and cars. Please plan to come back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
Hexa is a really nice car, and I do recommend it to quite a few. However, I guess TATA as a brand is yet to build that confidence for people to consider them specially for a car over 15L. Everyone appreciates, stops to see one, takes a test drive however shy's away to sign the dotted line. At the end it's a Creta they buy.
True. I have been quite impressed by the last few launches from Tata and especially the Hexa. Service has been a major let down and perception will take a long time to change. Most of the people who have bought a Tata before do not want to put their money again. The same thing is happening with me in case of Mahindra. I was so annoyed with their service that I had promised not to buy a Mahindra again. But the problem is that there is no other option if one needs a 4WD at low cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
On a lighter one, didn't dip27in try the slush with any of his cars. Am sure the drift would have been a spectacle for all to see
Yes it would have been a treat to watch the 325i doing donuts in slush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arindam_xeta View Post
Top class Sumitro. The way you have put it, is very unbiased and unemotional, that's what liked the most. "Not telling a friend negatives once he has already bought a car" , very nice thought indeed. Really enjoyed from this side of the screen, perhaps some day will get to the other side of the screen. Till then, keep them coming.
Thanks a lot Arindam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Absolutely, and I have no intentions at all of showing him this thread myself. I just meant in the sense that he should probably stumble upon this sometime. It was more on the lighter note actually
I know, even my post was on that light note. You can see my signature on team-bhp if you do not believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
That's part of ESP, it will brake individual wheels for checking understeer or oversteer, but the same car without brake traction control wont act wont brake individual wheels as part of traction control. Another example old Fortuner vs new Fortuner, old one did have ESP with traction control but no brake traction control, new one includes brake traction control and Toyota calls it A Trac. Similarly Jeep calls it BLD, we even managed to defeat that system, traction control has limited abilities, I have spent time studying and experimenting various tranction control systems, latest being new Endeavour and Jeep Wrangler, so I know what I am talking about and I am not making any guesses here.
Anshuman, one thing is not clear to me. Please help in understanding. When all four wheels on the ground in case of the XUV, when one wheel was losing traction and spinning, that wheel was momentarily stopped and the other wheel was able to push it forward. But when one was in air, it was keeping on spinning. Why was this happening? If traction control was not working properly when one one wheel was in air, it would not have worked when it was on ground and losing traction. Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifebuoy View Post
Great compilation guys ! BTW, is this area to the rear of New Town Action Area 1D ? Did I see the Jal Vayu Towers in one of the videos of part-2 ?
Thanks lifebuoy. This place in Newtown but not near Jal Vayu Towers. This is behind Eden Court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankpin View Post
This looks like a Tata Motors factory Hexa registered in Pimpri. Is this a test drive car at a dealer in Cal?
Yes this was a test drive car from the local dealer, TC Motors in Newtown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by megazoid View Post
Applying the foot brake (left foot) and part throttle on that XUV might also have helped. Brakes artificially introduce traction on the lifted wheel and gets some torque to reach the grounded wheel.
Ok, will try it out next time. In Thar applying brake and accelerator at the same time cuts off engine power. I am not sure if it is the same in XUV. Then this option might not work. I know one person who has installed two hand brakes in his MM550, one for each rear wheel. That is a cheap alternative to diff locks.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 21st July 2017 at 13:29.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:47   #27
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post

Anshuman, one thing is not clear to me. Please help in understanding. When all four wheels on the ground in case of the XUV, when one wheel was losing traction and spinning, that wheel was momentarily stopped and the other wheel was able to push it forward. But when one was in air, it was keeping on spinning. Why was this happening? If traction control was not working properly when one one wheel was in air, it would not have worked when it was on ground and losing traction. Am I missing something?
In this case the power cut from traction control was not to individual wheels, only engine traction control which cut down power from engine. And its not that old traction control systems were worthless, just that they do not work like pseudo diff locks, that's all. A driver has to know where to use what mode.
-------------------------------------------------
If I were to rate a car on basis of just one puddle, I can make any car win. If I were to show XUV is the best offroader, I would post some video like this one below. Here, No matter what we did Storme could not climb, even with best possible spotting and our finest drivers, does that make Storme a loser, No. Would I call the 4x4 system failed? No


or like this one for clearance, mainly ramp breakover :



One day, our friends from a media house were to film offroading, so they came offroading with us. See what happened in Video, they made endless attempts with V Cross, I took XUV to show them how to do it, still they could not do it. Hexa would lose its bumpers here.



We still do not pass judgements on basis of one obstacle.

Last edited by .anshuman : 21st July 2017 at 15:01. Reason: typo
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:12   #28
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In this case the power cut from traction control was not to individual wheels, only engine traction control which cut down power from engine. And its not that old traction control systems were worthless, just that they do not work like pseudo diff locks, that's all. A driver has to know where to use what mode.
Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
If I were to rate a car on basis of just one puddle, I can make any car win. If I were to show XUV is the best offroader, I would post something like this:
....
We still do not pass judgements on basis of one obstacle.
I do not think there is any need to be touchy about the XUV not doing well in one obstacle. The purpose of this thread was not to make it look like XUV is a loser, I have better things to do than that. I had posted the XUV video to understand if there was any problem with the car or not, because when it was taken to Mahindra service centre, they were as usual clueless about it. I don't think anybody has passed any judgement on the basis of one obstacle. Any person who has done a bit of off-roading will know that there is not one stock vehicle that is best suited for every obstacle, each car has its own advantage or disadvantage. That is why we have the term "Horses for courses". So I would request not to go into that route, instead share the immense knowledge that team-bhpians have. It will help us all to grow.
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:20   #29
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
I do not think there is any need to be touchy about the XUV not doing well in one obstacle. The purpose of this thread was not to make it look like XUV is a loser, I have better things to do than that. I had posted the XUV video to understand if there was any problem with the car or not, because when it was taken to Mahindra service centre, they were as usual clueless about it.
Its not about getting touchy, I don't care which car wins.

I am against mis-representation of facts, so clarifying my thoughts on your calling the traction system failed, without any signs of it failing, if there is no active TCS it won't work like active TCS. Please do not take it personal.

Last edited by .anshuman : 21st July 2017 at 14:22.
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Old 21st July 2017, 16:45   #30
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Default Re: Mild offroading with the Tata Hexa & other 4WD / AWD cars

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Its not about getting touchy, I don't care which car wins.

I am against mis-representation of facts, so clarifying my thoughts on your calling the traction system failed, without any signs of it failing, if there is no active TCS it won't work like active TCS. Please do not take it personal.
Peace, I hardly ever take things personally . I think there has been a miscommunication. I had never mentioned that the traction control system has failed. It was a query whether it was a problem with the particular XUV or not, especially because this XUV had a prior problem with 4WD activation which we had found out in the same place last year. Sadnabrina has also mentioned the same.
I drive a Bolero and a Thar which do not have traction control or any other electronic aids. So I am not the right person to pass judgement on these systems. To me, the Hexa performed better in the ditch/puddle or whatever it is called. I still don't understand what is the problem if a vehicle performs better than another in a particular situation and the problem in asking a question if the traction control worked or not. Discussing these things helps everybody and we are here to learn. I hope I have clarified myself and I do follow your channel on youtube
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