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Old 28th July 2008, 19:22   #31
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The Safari is technically superior with the LSD at rear.
But, the Scorpio seems to be much comfortable with the Jeep's OTR turf which is where the regular jeepers go.
This is with the indian context.

I've seen enough and more european (mostly italian) off-roading pictures with the Safari to say its QUITE capable. All said and done, I would rate both of them almost equal off-the-road.

But, I would not take my Safari to the jeepers' OTRs even if it had a 4x4.
2+ tons ,LWB and the long overhangs is what makes them weaker compared to the Jeeps.
The bruises to the vehicle and the wallet (while extreme off-roading) is a lot and spending a lakh or so in acquiring and using 4x4 Jeep would make more sense for OTRs.
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Old 28th July 2008, 19:22   #32
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Samurai, are there emergency electricians on hand in case one of the on board refrigerators shorts out and the Dom Perignon begins to lose its chill?

Sorry, I should be flogged.
You should be made to exchange places with GTO here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/880313-post20.html

and then flogged

sudev, thanks for the link. Desert Storm 2009 looks inviting and importantly, there's enough notice.

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But, I would not take my Safari to the jeepers' OTRs even if it had a 4x4.
That's the point of this thread, nitrous. A Jeepers' OTR will be conceived and planned with Jeeps in mind.

Last edited by dicorex4x4 : 28th July 2008 at 19:24.
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Old 28th July 2008, 19:51   #33
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So now its scorpio VS safari, logical comarison!!

Scorpio was definately better than safari when it had 2.0 turbo and later even 3.0l engine. Safari 2.0l turbo idi lacked grunt, 3.0l had grunt but no revability. May be we should wait for 2.2l to perform in 4x4 avtar vis a vis scorpio.

Scorpios biggest advantage is low end torque and great initial pick up. It is nimble, has better angle of approach and departure. I doubt its stability though. Safari with its greater length and wheel base is better. LSD comes into picture only on a narrow powerband. Hence if u have momentum u will clear obstacle better in greater speed. Very few ocassions where safari will have an edge over scorpio due to LSD. I feel scorpio makes a better offroader than safari. period!


Arka where were these pics in jeepthrills site? Lovely pics
PS: Samurai are u sure scorpio 4wd doesnt have antiroll bar on 4wd models??? please check.
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Old 28th July 2008, 20:18   #34
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
You will be surprised to know that there are 'luxury OTR's' happening for the Pajero's, Landcruisers, Prado's etc etc... These are done for people with deep pockets and i have heard that even the entry fee is something like 10K -15K.

There was one such luxury OTR held in Coorg a week before the Jeep_Thrills OTR.

Last year, one such 'Luxury OTR' was held in Chikmanglur/Sakleshpur.

I can't comment on the terrain etc. as I have not attended such 'Luxury OTR's' for obvious reasons
I don't have deep pockets either but would be interested in any OTRs planned for those in-betweens (between the M&M CL* / Gypsy and the Pajero types).

How does one get hold of such information?

Edit: This thread is not about the Safari or the Scorpio or which is better. It is for OTRs that some of us SUV owners can participate in. Not all of us can afford to buy a used Jeep for off-roading alone in addition to our daily drives.

Last edited by dicorex4x4 : 28th July 2008 at 20:20.
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Old 28th July 2008, 20:19   #35
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regarding planning otr for long wheel base vehicles, the problem is that many have short wheelbases and the participation from long wheelbase owners is next to nil. When short wheel base transverse through the same then they donot get enough wheel spin to satisfy themselves. Mahindra great escape satisfies the need for luxury suvs. But no other major group does it....may be lazlaboy does it.

Hence LWB luxury SUVs when they accompany SWB bare basic vehicles they automatically opt out of situations that they cannot do by parking thier vehicles aside.
Hence to chalk a seperate route u need enough vehicles and equipment to haul those heavy vehicles out.
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Old 28th July 2008, 20:30   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicorex4x4 View Post
I don't have deep pockets either but would be interested in any OTRs planned for those in-betweens (between the M&M CL* / Gypsy and the Pajero types).
Mahindra Great Escape is one where even 2WD SUVs are allowed, as long as you have a Mahindra product. Others are lazlaboy and Red Rooster Club, rest I don't know.
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Old 28th July 2008, 20:55   #37
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Hello all,

To see what Safaris (and other TATA 4x4s) are capable of covering OTR :

Team-BHP - The Definitive Indian Car Community-

Tata Club Italia

CLUB TATA 4x4 OR CLUB TATA 4x4

TATATEAM | TODOTERRENO

Should give an idea of what terrain to attempt with 4x4s of it's ilk.

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift
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Old 29th July 2008, 01:49   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I have not seen a scorpio in action, but a youtube video where a grassy slope defeated it because of open diffs.
So barring rocks, if you talk about sand etc., luxury SUVs should be quite capable if it has LSD or Locking diffs, with open diffs you are essentially 2WD
ive seen a very similar video where a rangerover is stuck in grass(will post the link soon),everything on wheels gets stuck but that doesnt define a vehicle's offroading potential.
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Old 29th July 2008, 08:08   #39
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
ive seen a very similar video where a rangerover is stuck in grass(will post the link soon),everything on wheels gets stuck but that doesnt define a vehicle's offroading potential.
That video is more relevant at showing how open diffs can get struck at some places where a locked diff will have no problems. Its not really about how good/bad scorpio is as compared to safari
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Old 30th July 2008, 02:34   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
That video is more relevant at showing how open diffs can get struck at some places where a locked diff will have no problems. Its not really about how good/bad scorpio is as compared to safari
Agreed LSD is a big advantage compared to open diff but just a rear diff with LSD is reason enough compare these two,lets wait for bhpians who have seen these suv's offroad to tell us more.
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Old 30th July 2008, 11:18   #41
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Default Scorpio vs Safari

Hi Dirty Dan,

The Rear-Axle on the newer Safari is much better setup (I'm not talking about ride/handling/articulation here) i.e 5-Link.

Where as the Scorpio is 3 -Link.

The advantage the Scorpio has over the Safari.

1) Weight
2) Engine
3) Articulation
4) Better Centre of Gravity.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th July 2008, 11:27   #42
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If you have to compare the two engines which are almost similar,the Safari's engine puts out 140bhp and 320Nm(right?) compared to the scorpio's 120.
So, the engine should be taken out of the picture
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Old 30th July 2008, 11:41   #43
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Reminder: This thread is not about the Safari or the Scorpio or which is better.

If any of you know about OTR events planned for "luxury" SUVs, please post here. Example: the posts by sudev & khan_sultan.

There are other threads to bash the Safari / Scorpio.
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Old 30th July 2008, 11:55   #44
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Default Look Beyond BHP & Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
If you have to compare the two engines which are almost similar,the Safari's engine puts out 140bhp and 320Nm(right?) compared to the scorpio's 120.
So, the engine should be taken out of the picture
If we were to go by numbers alone then yes, what about rev-ability, acceleration, The entire Engine/Transmission/ Low-weight make a lot of difference.
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Old 30th July 2008, 12:58   #45
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Gradeability: Vehicle's ability to climb a grade at a given speed. for eg. A truck with a gradeability of 5% at 40 kmph can maintain 40 kmph on a grade with a rise of 5%.

Grade: Steepness of a grade, expressed as a percentage. eg. A vehicle climbing a 5% grade rises 5 feet for every 100 feet of forward travel.

In a nutshell, you can keep the same speed in 4x4 till it hits a max of 78% steepness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Safari has 78% gradability in 4x4, what does it mean?

Last edited by dadu : 30th July 2008 at 13:00.
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