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Old 20th August 2008, 12:47   #1
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Default Recovery and Salvage techniques.. Post Here

last weeks offroading vidoes with nissan pathfinder, got stuck in the slush



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Old 20th August 2008, 14:22   #2
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@adarvesh- interesting videos.
how did you get the nissan out finally?
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Old 20th August 2008, 14:57   #3
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after trying for 2 hours finally it came out. we pulled it out with the help of the gypsy and the worse part was that gypsy clutch was fully dead.
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Old 20th August 2008, 18:07   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adarvesh View Post
after trying for 2 hours finally it came out. we pulled it out with the help of the gypsy and the worse part was that gypsy clutch was fully dead.
My GV was also pulled out by a Gypsy this Sunday, besides a little clutch burn, that Gypsy didn't suffer any problem.
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Old 20th August 2008, 21:53   #5
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Boy Rajmachi rocks!! And you guys are having an absolute riot.

Altaf what kind of a tow rope are you guys using. Is that a steel cable? Can't see clearly
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Old 20th August 2008, 22:24   #6
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In case you are using a steel cable may I suggest you switch to a canvas belt like in the picture. Its 24 feet long, 4 inches wide. The one I have is a professional grade tow rope but I think you can source this locally from shops that sell materials for cranes. The belt allows for a healthy dose of smooth snatch rather than a harsh jerk. The length also allows for a good build-up of momentum for the pulling vehicle. With this belt you can accelerate hard knowing your momentum will not get broken with a harsh jerk. When both cars connect through the belt its more like hitting a foam cushion rather than a wall. It increases your pulling effectiveness and lessens the burden on your clutch

Recovery and Salvage techniques.. Post Here-img_0107.jpg

Crane and block and tackle shops sell these canvas belts locally.
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Old 20th August 2008, 22:33   #7
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I just saw the nissan video...
what is all that stuff on the roof of the nissan!
Looks like someones moving house!
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Old 20th August 2008, 22:49   #8
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Guys, this is what I use for towing and this is the best for towing. DKG is right. Its also light weight, safe to use and very tuff. All you need is a 3 1/4" shackle on both ends.
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Old 21st August 2008, 09:04   #9
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seeing the number of videos (both indian and foreign) where a tiny suzuki saves every brand of off roader, I think, I should be looking for a Gypsy and not an MM540.
I've been a longtime MM540 fan, but the proof of the gypsy's prowess is irrefutable.
Low end torque vs Revs! again!

I know this is off topic- but, gotta ask this-how much does a clutch cost in a gypsy? I feel, that is the component that will need the most replacement in a vehicle with power delivery characteristics of this kind.

Last edited by rippergeo : 21st August 2008 at 09:07.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 13:32   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
In case you are using a steel cable may I suggest you switch to a canvas belt like in the picture. Its 24 feet long, 4 inches wide. The one I have is a professional grade tow rope but I think you can source this locally from shops that sell materials for cranes. The belt allows for a healthy dose of smooth snatch rather than a harsh jerk. The length also allows for a good build-up of momentum for the pulling vehicle. With this belt you can accelerate hard knowing your momentum will not get broken with a harsh jerk. When both cars connect through the belt its more like hitting a foam cushion rather than a wall. It increases your pulling effectiveness and lessens the burden on your clutch

Attachment 40607

Crane and block and tackle shops sell these canvas belts locally.
Hi DKG,

Please do not give off the cuff suggestions about snatch/kinetic energy recovery techniques.
1) They the THE MOST DANGEROUS way to recover a vehicle.
2) Requires a lot of calculations. Vehicle Weight/Speed/Distance/Line Strength
3) For KE Pulls you require PROPER KE Strap (tug-em/snatch straps).

In recovery related issues terms like "healthy dose of smooth snatch" & "good build-up of momentum for the pulling vehicle" is VERY vague and extremely unsafe.

To make an effective recovery with a Nylon Rope/ISW Rope/Nylon Belt.
1) attach to both vehicles securely at towing points with D-Shackles.
2) Clear all persons from the sides of the vehicles. place them behind both vehicles.
3) Cover the tow rope with a heavy blanket/ tarpaulin/ground mat/ vehicle floor mat.
4) The vehicle which is pulling takes up the slack in the rope (1st Low/2nd Low) and then increase power gradually; NOT TO SHOCK LOAD/JERK the two rope.
5) ONE person must co-ordinate and organize the recovery procedure

In Soft Surfaces (Sand & Mud & Snow) If a vehicle gets stuck use 2 vehicles to pull it out keeping the following in mind.

1) use TWO different tow ropes/lines
2) attach the rope/line to TWO different points on the chassis.
3) Use a ground mat on each rope.

Regards,

Arka

PS - As most of you have realised that Recovery Skill & technique is most important in an OTR otherwise it just becomes a mud-bath.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 13:38   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Please do not give off the cuff suggestions about snatch/kinetic energy recovery techniques.
Arka I've pulled 2 plus ton TLC's and Nissan Patrols using the canvas belt I posted. Pulling Gypsies and Jeeps out of slush is like pulling peanuts out. You don't need to waste time doing any calculations!

You obviously have limited exposure Arka, unless you snatch pulling a car out of desert sand is close to impossible. The pulling vehicle simply digs itself in.

Last edited by DKG : 22nd August 2008 at 13:42.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 13:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Arka I've pulled 2 plus ton TLC's and Nissan Patrols using the canvas belt I posted. Pulling Gypsies and Jeeps out of slush is like pulling peanuts out. You don't need to waste time doing any calculations!

You obviously have limited exposure Arka, unless you snatch pulling a car out of desert sand is close to impossible
Hi DKG,

Your Experience is telling in the advice you are giving people.

When you mention KE Recovery without even a cursory word about safety,

I get quite a clear picture about what you know and have done.

Recovery Techniques is not about making tall claims, neither is it about brute strength.

Its applying the minimum external force required, through proper equipment, in the shortest time possible, to SAFELY recover a vehicle.

In a Kinetic Energy(KE/Snatch) Recovery it is very easy to
1) Snap the rope/belt
2) Snap the tow points (which become projectiles; 2-3Kgs@Mach2-3)
3) Tear the Chassis
4) Even Fling the recovered vehicle to a better OTR spot.

THE MOST IMPORTANT thing about KE recovery is using a rated KE Strap like
1) WARN 4x4 Tug-em Strap
2) Snatch recovery
3) Snatch Recovery

And yes I have limited exposure, while you my dear friend has limited information...but we are on the internet and GOOGLE is our friend.

Also do Consider the winch as you Friend too.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 22nd August 2008, 14:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
internet and GOOGLE is our friend.
Get off the computer, travel the world, do some driving in diverse terrain and then go about sharing text book knowledge that you have tested.

You seem to forget that there are people who have driven offroaders in terrain far more trying than what you encounter in Chennai and there are techniques you need to use to pull effectively and not end up burning clutches as you refuse to use the technique I have suggested.

Driving on road and offroad is not an exact science. I will never dispute assertions regarding safety. But you are assuming I know nothing of safety. The tow belt I have has a healthy dose of elasticity which never allows towing hooks to break. Besides the snatch comes from a yank not a high speed connect that you seem to feel I suggest.

Please rest assured that I have driven enough in soft desert sand (which is one of the worst for recovery) and this technique is widely used. We have also pulled cars out with this technique with absolutely no injury or damage. So your fears are unfounded.

As for your constant penchant to verify people's credentials may I suggest you ease up a bit and let people share freely on this public forum. For anyone to assume that I am foolhardly to wantonly mislead people into an unsafe procedure is totally inaccurate.

No one here is an authority. Everyone posts as equal members. Everyone here is an adult (hopefully) and advice on a public forum must be always taken with your head on shoulders.

A few rungs lower on the high horse should win you more ears, if I may suggest.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 14:29   #14
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I saw this elastic rope being used in Top gears Arctic adventure. They were using some kind of elastic roap.
The towing car would pull and the bungee cord would stretch, then the guy in the hilux will spin the wheels.
the bungee rope stores energy which was used to pull out the struck hilux.
I guess having a bungee rope is good for the towing vehicle as the clutch of the towing vehicle will be saved.

But one question on "local canvas ropes" as suggested by DKG. There is no guarantee of quality etc., on these, and I am not sure they are made for off roading. I think cranes were mentioned somewhere, but what i f the rope is designed for light weights. Morover things are lifted smoothly in case of cranes.

The Nylon tow rope seems to be decent(as posted by jaysmokesleaves). Is it available easily in Delhi. I think a tow rope is a must have in any car(off road or non off road).
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Old 22nd August 2008, 14:34   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
As for your constant penchant to verify people's credentials may I suggest you ease up a bit and let people share freely on this public forum. For anyone to assume that I am foolhardly to wantonly mislead people into an unsafe procedure is totally inaccurate.

Hi DKG,

Don't get so touchy, If your credentials are impeccable you will hardly notice. I Never expected you to make such a loose post on recovery techniques at least.

Please tell people the proper technique.

And yes after buying my first JEEP, I learnt whatever I could from the internet and tried them out.

Every new trick I read about, I make sure I try it out Off-Road.

OTR Driving is not a science, but recovery techniques are definitely a science. Every Army in the world runs comprehensive course/school for RECOVERY & SALVAGE

And off-course there are people who have driven in a variety of terrain and its with their help and expertise that we have been able to form a list of SOPs for Off-Road Driving and Recovery Techniques.


Regards,

Arka

PS - Mods time for a new Recovery Techniques Thread
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