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Old 23rd September 2008, 15:38   #16
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No it won't unless you go over a sharp object and that's one thing you can't avoid while off-roading. My statement was with reference to that scene where the rear wheel was simply spinning and not getting any traction at all.

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Originally Posted by amit V8 View Post
just a question, won't the reduction in the tyre pressure while offroading, blow them out?? being tubeless?? correct me if i'm wrong.
i think a much broader tyre & correct driving techniques will help.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 15:41   #17
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Why? can you give reasons?

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
2.H/T tyres.(getting A/T or M/T on 2wd does not make sense at all)
Well you win some and loose some. And remember you were off-roaing as well..

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Originally Posted by Rough Square View Post
But would'nt this increase chances of alloy damage?

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 23rd September 2008 at 17:43.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 15:56   #18
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@Roughsquare: Varun?

I still think the 2WD would have taken it through.

An offroader is as good as its driver.

Last edited by Spitfire : 23rd September 2008 at 15:59.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 16:52   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Hi, I'm no expert, but a few suggestions.

The first situation where in you lost traction at the wheels, you could have tried putting some stones to make the tyres bite. Also, cleaning the tyres sipes help in biting the ground.

You were doing pretty ok and if i were you, i would have continued ahead!
Sipes are the very, very small cuts in the lugs. Cleaning the LUGS and spaces in between may have helped, briefly.

Try carrying jute or burlap bags and put them under the rear wheels next time. Carry a 25 kilo bag of sand or small pebbles and put them in the slippery track.

Rocking the car back and forth may have gotten you out. You go back as far as you can and then as the car stops and comes forward via gravity you quickly shift to first and use the momentum to help you go forward. When you get stuck going forward, shift into reverse quickly and use the momentum of the fall back to help you go further in reverse. Repeat the process as needed. You have to be quick and accurate with the clutch and shift to take advantage of the momentum. This is called "rocking".

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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
Well you win some and loose some. And remember you were off-roaing as well..
Yup! You did okay. Dents can be fixed and the front bumper alteration is an improvement. Next time try to break the other side of the bumper the same way to gain symmetry.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 20:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Sipes are the very, very small cuts in the lugs. Cleaning the LUGS and spaces in between may have helped, briefly.

Rocking the car back and forth may have gotten you out. You go back as far as you can and then as the car stops and comes forward via gravity you quickly shift to first and use the momentum to help you go forward. When you get stuck going forward, shift into reverse quickly and use the momentum of the fall back to help you go further in reverse. Repeat the process as needed. You have to be quick and accurate with the clutch and shift to take advantage of the momentum. This is called "rocking".
@dirtydan, guess we are talking the same stuff and lugs and sipes width depend on the tyre make. NDMS has no sipes then, only lugs and they are self cleaning tyres!

Rocking the vehicle is Ok if one can understand the non synchro gearbox of the jeep and play with it, else one needs to double de clutch fast and that aint easy in old vehicles.

About the jute bag stuff, am not sure that it'll work when you loose traction on a clayey surface!
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Old 23rd September 2008, 20:51   #21
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just compiled all the pointers that I thought were useful. apologies for not giving credit to the original contributors, that would have made the post very cluttered.
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all terrain tyres may have helped.
maybe deflating the tyres slightly might have helped.

In slushy inclines, you do need momentum to keep on going. Knowing the right mixture of torque and momentum for a given incline comes only experience.

Under such circumstances a front wheel drive does much better than a RWD. Putting more weight arond the spinning tyre, like standing on the side footsteps near the wheel might also have helped

The first situation where in you lost traction at the wheels, you could have tried putting some stones to make the tyres bite. Also, cleaning the tyres sipes help in biting the ground.

over revving in conditions of poor traction just gets you dug in faster/lose traction earlier

Try carrying jute or burlap bags and put them under the rear wheels next time.

Carry a 25 kilo bag of sand or small pebbles and put them in the slippery track.

Rocking the car back and forth may have gotten you out


I've driven a RWD MM540 in sand, and found sacks/cocunut leaves useful in getting out.
Rocking, I've tried, but was unsucessful because of the reason headers pointed out, its not really synchromesh, and the long throw lever doesnt help.
cleaning the sipes would be a pointless exercise because 2 or 3 revolutions of the wheel in muddy terrain would fill them up right away.

@headers- not an expert?you?
@rough square- I should have said this earlier- nice jeep. dont bother about the plastic bumper and other frills, you are better off without them.seriously!
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Old 23rd September 2008, 21:07   #22
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As per my little experience, any SUV without 4X4 is just like a car.
Thats why i always tell my offroading friends to bring only those SUV's which have 4X4 in working condition.
If that driver would have applied some momentum then he would have gone through that track.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 21:11   #23
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The bumpers are not plastic.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 23:50   #24
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Arrow Over-revving?

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Originally Posted by Rough Square View Post
...what went wrong...
you supplied more torque than required (over-revved)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rough Square View Post
.....what can be done to get out of such situations...
In this specific terrain, the trick is to give just the right, minimum torque required to the wheels, so that they can keep moving the vehicle and not loose grip/traction. The moment you give more torque than is required, the wheels will lose traction and start spinning.

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Hi, I'm no expert, ......
understatement of the year ???!!!

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
...In the second situation, i will hear the sound at home later and post. But from the looks of it, maybe you over revved.
right, headers, I heard the sound and definitely over-revved.
The amazing low-end torque of the DI turbo will be difficult to master in OTR situations, IMO.

Rough Square, if I were you, I wouldn't take my 2WD vehicle to such terrain : the transmission elements would unnecessarily get strained.
.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 23rd September 2008 at 23:57.
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Old 24th September 2008, 00:43   #25
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Although my bolero is powered by a peugeot motor, but it still is a 4x2 as of now, and its been places where other 4x2 havn't been. So you can say a bolero is a very capable vehicle.
The problem here is that i noticed that the terrian is wet and muddy, and all-terrian tires dont have wide sipes for mud coz they even have to tackle wet metaled roads which need quite a norrow section of sipes. Using All-terrians over here will get them filled up with mud in no time, and if it wet sand then its even worse.
The first rule here is that you should not have got your vehicle here.
Second, always choose the section with the least imperfections(bumps etc), and therefore it provides the best approach.
Here the only approach up the incline was to take a runout to build a little bit of a velocity and then just stomp on the throttle, stopping anyplace midway is likely to get you stuck(much like it would be on a sand dune), so dont even think of it. And if you have done it already, then just dont stomp on the throttle again coz thats going to get you nowhere. Instead back all the way out till you find a section where you have traction and can built some motion(velocity), and do it all over again.
As for where you got stuck, as dirty dan said, put something underneath it that helps you gain traction. Adding some weight to the vehicle would not help as it is already a heavy vehicle, but rocking surely would help a little. Next time carry a small plank for supporting the jack(makes a nice broad base for the jack if its on a bumpy surface), and if you get stuck, then jack it up using the plank underneath the jack, put something underneath the wheels(you can use anthing that can gain traction, rocks ,bricks, etc, altough its better if you have a set of long planks for it, as it even make for a sort of bridge over the section. I have even used floor matts and it did the job, but it destroyed the matts completely....lol)
take care
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Old 24th September 2008, 10:33   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aamir567 View Post
As per my little experience, any SUV without 4X4 is just like a car.
Thats why i always tell my offroading friends to bring only those SUV's which have 4X4 in working condition.
If that driver would have applied some momentum then he would have gone through that track.
.A SUV without a 4wd is like a raised car. May be a lighter car with a good ground clearance could have done the same course better. Bolero did its best. No fault of tyres or the driver. When u need a 4wd on the terrain u cant manage most of it without a 4wd, however best the driver may be.

If the path was dry then it would have done it supremely well but when it is slushy you cannot do much. Further since the vehicle was new you cannot push it carelessly as one could do it in a regular 2wd jeep.
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Old 24th September 2008, 11:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
When u need a 4wd on the terrain u cant manage most of it without a 4wd, however best the driver may be.
Vinod, brutus has made a post, which IMO can work, but one cant be sure of it at all times. Nor will it work the second time.

I've seen 2WD vehicles do a 4wd terrain such as these in the areas of coorg mudumalai and munnar! Trust me, i did not own a single offroad vehicle then.
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Old 24th September 2008, 15:01   #28
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Thanks a lot everyone for all the suggestions.

Special thanks to rippergeo for the summary.
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Old 24th September 2008, 20:52   #29
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My 2 paisa worth:

1. The guy driving did not know how to back up. He needed two helpers and still could not keep a good line. Practice backing up using mirrors.
2. Lower pressure somewhat say 50% of normal.
3. Stop the engine and then after putting the vehicle in 1 or 2 or reverse (depending on direction you want to go) gear with foot off the clutch use starter. This helps some times. Lower torque actually stops tyre spin.
4. Get people to jump up and down on rear side to rock the suspension
5. In very slippery situations you can even ask people to push the rear end towards a direction that can help you align better for take off.
6. Try putting some branches / grass under the wheel. Even foot mat helps.

Try not to go on trails alone.

HTH
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:29   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
No traction=no forward motion
your tyres let you down.
all terrain tyres may have helped.
maybe deflating the tyres slightly might have helped.
though, i have never done an off-roading thing, How about putting some stones under the rear tyre to get the traction.
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