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Old 23rd October 2008, 09:36   #106
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
With all these rains in past few days, I anm sure Sakleshpur would be a heave for Off-Roading. Am very much tempted to ask Chandan on what is the scene there and if we can have another OTR session there soon :-)
Thats Khan bhai. Never let any chance go by
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Old 23rd October 2008, 09:47   #107
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Chethan is trying to upload 112mb file on youtube . But the youtube guys are deleting it.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 10:23   #108
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This is the disadvantage in ECU driven vehicles. Hrishi, never try engine braking on your vehicle without using brakes. you will still experience the braking effect but the response would be very slow. this is because its a comfort feature we have in our newer generation diesel engines called as surge dampers to avoid jerks when the vehicle drives the engine. The ECU matches the engine speed to what the vehicle is driving it and ramps it down slowly. this will take few seconds. Due to this the trucks and offroad vehicles are equiped with a engine brake switch which will be manually operated by the driver when going down hill to command the ECU to stop the fuel injection until the engine rpm reaches the idling point.
Exactly! The second time I took the steep descent, I used the brakes a lot less. Around the time mjothi took that photo from the shotgun seat, I let go of the brake pedal completely - the vehicle surged forward, the RPM shot up to around 2250 and just before we reached level ground (still on the incline), the engine braking took over. May have taken 2-3 seconds.

You're right - I almost always have to use the brakes even with engine braking.

Iswear - the no ABC engine braking can be experienced in mild descents in 2WD. Try it out on a normal surfaced descent while taking enough care. Watch your rpm if you have a tacho.

Last edited by hrag : 23rd October 2008 at 10:25.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 14:27   #109
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Sure. You need to feel it to beleive it. Also, when people say no braking, it does not include the engine braking.
He he. I guess I understood that much!

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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
If one has never driven a 4x4, then it can be very difficult to comprehend -- as in a 2WD you don't get this NO ABC on descend to work effectively.

In 4WD mode, the gearing ratios do the speed reduction/torque manipulation and give 'immense engine braking' characteristics. The vehicle just crawls -- the torque of the engine comes into play.

NOTE: This is very very evident in diesel engines. Not so much in petrol engines (at least the Gypsy. In it you have to feather the brakes at times on descent).

With all these rains in past few days, I anm sure Sakleshpur would be a heave for Off-Roading. Am very much tempted to ask Chandan on what is the scene there and if we can have another OTR session there soon :-)

Cheers,
Hmmmm. That's true. It's tough to understand the theory!
I don't have a 4X4. But can I be part of the next OTR, if there is one?

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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
Iswear - the no ABC engine braking can be experienced in mild descents in 2WD. Try it out on a normal surfaced descent while taking enough care. Watch your rpm if you have a tacho.
How do you EXACTLY 'experience' it? I mean, it is breaking my head to understand that I do NO-ABC and still go down a descend. I only can imagine going down the highway to hell
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Old 23rd October 2008, 14:37   #110
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.....I don't have a 4X4. But can I be part of the next OTR, if there is one? ..
Many folks in this OTR did not have a 4x4. they joined us. So keep a watch and hop in. Most welcome (but don't ask questions during the OTR -- just enjoy. Just kidding..)



Quote:
....it is breaking my head to understand that I do NO-ABC and still go down a descend. I only can imagine going down the highway to hell..
That's what my wifey also said after listening to the theory. Best advice: forget it. don't worry about it in 2wd. Come to an OTR, and you can experience it first hand. Easy and simple - right?

Cheers,
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Old 23rd October 2008, 14:42   #111
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Err. wait a minute, Arent petrols supposed to give better engine braking than diesels.
Thats the reason things like Exhaust brake, Jake brake are needed for diesels, because the compressed air inside the cylinder acts more like a spring.
I guess its not diesel petrol thingy, but the gear ratio
4L in a diesel eg, the safari is significantly lower than 4L in a petrol, eg a gypsy? Atleast I felt so, but I havent driven a gypsy since a long time, so can't really comment
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Old 23rd October 2008, 14:51   #112
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@Iswear aah no one mentioned u in which gear you need to descend. It is the 1st gear. Just try in your car shifting to lower gear in a decent speed. You wil experience braking effect.

Last edited by Technocrat : 23rd October 2008 at 15:04. Reason: Please write in full english, type 'you' instead of U, please read our rules carefully, thanks
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Old 23rd October 2008, 15:01   #113
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I really envy all you Bangy TBHPians, who have been part of this and the other recent OTRs. You have such wonderful OTR terrain quite close ( in OTR terms ) to home !

Have fun, safely cheers:!
Hope to join in one of the OTRs sometime.


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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...Arent petrols supposed to give better engine braking than diesels....
very true, for the conventional (carb.) petrol engine and standard N/A diesel engine (without any ECU in both cases).

But, in off-road vehicles, the 4L also plays a role. So, the effect of the lower engine RPM and lower gearing in 4L makes the MM540 have better engine braking than the MG410W when going downhill (I have always had to use the brake when going downhill in the Gypsy, but yes, the brakes have to be used with caution)
.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 23rd October 2008 at 15:15.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 15:26   #114
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I went to TV9 office yesterday to see if i can get a copy of the telecast on a CD or Tape. The receptionist told me that they do not do that. And said, i have to record while its being transmitted and thats all.

Quote:
Chethan is trying to upload 112mb file on youtube . But the youtube guys are deleting it.
Hey, i have a full fledged high end edit suit at my disposal for any media work. So, in case chetan is finding it difficult, i can help in the compression and put it on youtube, vimeo or burn CDs/DVDs for that matter.

Chetan are you listening. Send me a PM.

Krishna
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Old 23rd October 2008, 15:36   #115
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Err. wait a minute, Arent petrols supposed to give better engine braking than diesels.
Thats the reason things like Exhaust brake, Jake brake are needed for diesels, because the compressed air inside the cylinder acts more like a spring.
I guess its not diesel petrol thingy, but the gear ratio
4L in a diesel eg, the safari is significantly lower than 4L in a petrol, eg a gypsy? Atleast I felt so, but I havent driven a gypsy since a long time, so can't really comment
Diesel engines hav compression ratio from 14:1 to nearly 25:1 where as petrols hav 4:1 to 9:1.
Exhaust brakes are used in trucks as the braking force offered by engine is not sufficient due to heavy load and the exhaust brakes are used to maintain a decent speed in slopes so that the driver wil hav control on the vehicle and also to overcome the wear and tear in the drum brakes.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 16:30   #116
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Chetan, you have been saying this for past 2-3 days buddy.

On a separate note, it's great to know that you enjoyed your first OTR experience. I am sure it is a different 'high' compared to the 'racing' world.

Cheers,
Sorry for the delay guys...

FINALLY MY QUOTA OF PICTURES...

Picasa Web Albums - C10 - Ramnagar OTR#
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Old 23rd October 2008, 19:11   #117
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Thanks man. So since delayed you gave TWO links for SAME set of pics

Btw, where was this? And how did you made it?
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Old 23rd October 2008, 20:30   #118
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Many folks in this OTR did not have a 4x4. they joined us. So keep a watch and hop in. Most welcome (but don't ask questions during the OTR -- just enjoy. Just kidding..)


That's what my wifey also said after listening to the theory. Best advice: forget it. don't worry about it in 2wd. Come to an OTR, and you can experience it first hand. Easy and simple - right?

Cheers,
Thanks. I will watch this closely. But finger on my lips

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@Iswear aah no one mentioned u in which gear you need to descend. It is the 1st gear. Just try in your car shifting to lower gear in a decent speed. You wil experience braking effect.
Aaah! This makes sense. Guys, do you see? Star_Aqua is the only one who understood aptitude level of Newbies like me First gear was missing in the gyan!!

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
Thanks man. So since delayed you gave TWO links for SAME set of pics

Btw, where was this? And how did you made it?
Attachment 63119
Hey, can I know the exact model/make etc of this vehicle?
Thanks .. And again, keep my Aptitude level in mind and explain me every bit of it!!
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Old 23rd October 2008, 21:00   #119
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Hey, can I know the exact model/make etc of this vehicle?
Thanks .. And again, keep my Aptitude level in mind and explain me every bit of it!!
Thats our star_aqua's baby.

Vijay, details from your side please.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 21:24   #120
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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
Thanks man. So since delayed you gave TWO links for SAME set of pics

Btw, where was this? And how did you made it?
Attachment 63119

Well, this is Andy's adventure..

This happened once we all winded up & were heading to the main road & Dwarka's Gypsy had low pressure on LHR Tyre.. So as Dwarka stopped to check, Andy thought the empty land was perfect for Off-roading.. We got stuck when the Jeep lost its momentum & Suresh came to our rescue & towed Vijay's Jeep out WITH NO EFFORT..

Cheers,
c10.
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