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Old 6th August 2009, 16:27   #241
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Boss, I just made that comment by seeing those pictures. That's the reason I wanted to know.
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Old 6th August 2009, 16:53   #242
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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Boss, I just made that comment by seeing those pictures. That's the reason I wanted to know.
Hi Rudra Sen, nice question you raised. Why do not you see it, evaluate and than comment. Also I always to wanted to know how many other competative event are there in India for off road (not rally).

I was planning to join TPC 2009 alongwith my Jeep but due to some reason I could not make it this year. You are lucky that you live so close (I can say this as I was planning driving 2600Km one way).

It would be a fun for you to click some pitures in action too.

Last edited by DesertKing : 6th August 2009 at 16:58.
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Old 6th August 2009, 21:14   #243
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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Arka And other pro 4X4 guys, I have a simple stupid question. Why is this one called INDIA's Toughest 4WD off-Road Competition?

Going by the those pictures I couldn't really figure out as what's so tough about those terrains. Don't guys do those on your regular weekend outings?

Sorry if I'm sounding like a dumb but please educate this old haggard.

Its like a rollercoaster, looks simple when you look at it from the ground but you scream your guts out while on it
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Old 7th August 2009, 06:32   #244
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Going by the those pictures I couldn't really figure out as what's so tough about those terrains. Don't guys do those on your regular weekend outings?
Yes Sir, I agree that the pictures are deceptive - We love to drive more than take pictures - Why not hop along for the event for the photography part - Have heard you can make the pictures talk!

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Also the trail is designed in a way that will take the hell out of both man & machine. Add the heat factor to all that & you will need lots of skill, personal fitness & a very very fit vehicle to survive this one.
Yup - Also sand is a terrain where the vehicles are screwed to the max!

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Originally Posted by DesertKing View Post
I was planning to join TPC 2009 alongwith my Jeep but due to some reason I could not make it this year. You are lucky that you live so close (I can say this as I was planning driving 2600Km one way).

It would be a fun for you to click some pitures in action too.
Oh Naren: so you are not making it: Sad

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Its like a rollercoaster, looks simple when you look at it from the ground but you scream your guts out while on it
Ha ha nice way to define it Ravin!
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:07   #245
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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Arka And other pro 4X4 guys, I have a simple stupid question. Why is this one called INDIA's Toughest 4WD off-Road Competition?

Going by the those pictures I couldn't really figure out as what's so tough about those terrains. Don't guys do those on your regular weekend outings?

Sorry if I'm sounding like a dumb but please educate this old haggard.
Hi Rudra,

That's a very valid point.

The Only answer is you have to be here, in you own vehicle and try to finish all the obstacles by the end of the day.

Since you have been for an OTR, in TPC you will do 8-10 one-day/half type OTRs, thats the amount of obstacles to be covered in One Day.

wrt. pics your the BIG MAN, tell us, even better show us how to do it right.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Have you ever run on the beach.

Last edited by ex670c : 7th August 2009 at 10:11.
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:33   #246
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So does that mean all the jeeps run deflated tires in this trail?

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th August 2009 at 10:41.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:01   #247
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Don't go by the pictures, bud : They only show 1/3rd the real story. I'd say this is the toughest offroad competition because its a test of endurance & skill. From what I've heard, the weather can take its toll on you, and the continuous offroading on your machine. I like the fact that there is a long terrain chalked out and ready. As mentioned, in these 3 days, you'd complete the equivalent of 10 - 15 of the Sunday OTRs that most of us usually go for. The winner will not merely be the most skilled 4x4 driver, but also the one who knows how to preserve his Jeep / Gypsy for such a long session.

On a related note : I feel terrible about not being able to participate in this round, yet welcome the initiative taken by Arka. We offroaders need to support such events in whatever way that we can, to spread the 4x4 fever, awareness and enthusiasm. I look forward to a time when similar events take place on a regular basis in all of India's corners.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:03   #248
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The Only answer is you have to be here, in you own vehicle and try to finish all the obstacles by the end of the day.
Arka, I think youíre getting me wrong here. Iíve asked that question because I know nothing about off road driving and wanted to have some idea.

If I drive there Iíll know? No Iíll not. Because Iíve never driven a 4X4 off the road. I donít have the slightest idea about that kind of driving. Thatís why I raised that question. You guys are doing it regularly and I thought some explanation as education will come up.
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Since you have been for an OTR, in TPC you will do 8-10 one-day/half type OTRs, thats the amount of obstacles to be covered in One Day.
Iíve seen two OTR with Bangalore team. I joined them only as a spectator and not as a driver.
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wrt. pics your the BIG MAN, tell us, even better show us how to do it right.
You got me wrong here again. Did I say pictures are not right? And Iím no BIG MAN here. When it comes to photography I try to do what I think is right.
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PS - Have you ever run on the beach.
Yes, many times. It was also part of our special training before one tough trek.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:37   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Arka, I think youíre getting me wrong here. Iíve asked that question because I know nothing about off road driving and wanted to have some idea.

If I drive there Iíll know? No Iíll not. Because Iíve never driven a 4X4 off the road. I donít have the slightest idea about that kind of driving. Thatís why I raised that question. You guys are doing it regularly and I thought some explanation as education will come up.
Iíve seen two OTR with Bangalore team. I joined them only as a spectator and not as a driver.
You got me wrong here again. Did I say pictures are not right? And Iím no BIG MAN here. When it comes to photography I try to do what I think is right.
Yes, many times. It was also part of our special training before one tough trek.
Hi Rudra,

I have definitely not got you wrong, the education part of it is boring.

I was wondering in 2006 why driving in this sandy terrain is difficult and the answer is in Physics & Chemistry, and Molecular Dynamics of the Sand Particles.

The riverbed sand is used to make concrete because of the coarse and larger grain size.

This has two effects naturally,
1) the riverbed sand absorbs a lot of water during monsoons (1 week) and filters it down to the lower layer (20-60ft) this is why the Palar is an subterranean river.

2) The coarse sand readily absorbs water and easily evapourates water (top layer 1-3ft) thats the surface we drive on.

The sand is thick enough to bring a vehicle to standstill in a few feet, even when you are 2nd gear Lo-ratio, that is the resistance offered by the sand, now imagine doing 20-50ft climb up and other obstacles.

Hence its easier to ask someone to come down and drive, and experience it.

wrt. Photography you are the guru, so definitely some tips to capture 3D in 2D.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 7th August 2009, 12:09   #250
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
the education part of it is boring.
Most of the time, I agree.
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the The sand is thick enough to bring a vehicle to standstill in a few feet,
Agree with you again. Had a tough time after shooting E220 long back. Had to call a tow truck.
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even when you are 2nd gear Lo-ratio, that is the resistance offered by the sand, now imagine doing 20-50ft climb up and other obstacles.
Can imagine.
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Hence its easier to ask someone to come down and drive, and experience it.
Iíll surely try that with you guys some day.
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Old 7th August 2009, 13:15   #251
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The sand is thick enough to bring a vehicle to standstill in a few feet, even when you are 2nd gear Lo-ratio, that is the resistance offered by the sand, now imagine doing 20-50ft climb up and other obstacles.
So you are saying that a powerful "soft roader" SUV will perform better than a jeep due to tremendous low end torque available in 2nd low? I have been to only two OTRs and I observed that Scorpio, Safari and endeavor were indeed better on sandy uphill sections where things like overhand and articulation were not of much consequence.
When I went to Jaisalmer, I had parked in sand. When I started in 4H in first gear, the car stalled twice as the engine did not have enough grunt to move her. However in 4L, I could putter along even at low rpms, and where the jeepers had to go zoom, I just ambled along lazily.
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Old 7th August 2009, 13:52   #252
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So you are saying that a powerful "soft roader" SUV will perform better than a jeep due to tremendous low end torque available in 2nd low? I have been to only two OTRs and I observed that Scorpio, Safari and endeavor were indeed better on sandy uphill sections where things like overhand and articulation were not of much consequence.
When I went to Jaisalmer, I had parked in sand. When I started in 4H in first gear, the car stalled twice as the engine did not have enough grunt to move her. However in 4L, I could putter along even at low rpms, and where the jeepers had to go zoom, I just ambled along lazily.
The sand is thick enough to bring a vehicle to standstill in a few feet,the second you press the Clutch, even when you are 2nd gear Lo-ratio, that is the resistance offered by the sand, now imagine doing 20-50ft climb up and other obstacles.

I was mentioning resistance, the primary component there is the weight.

Are you trying to hint that the Safari has Palar Challenge potential

Regards,

Arka
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Old 7th August 2009, 13:56   #253
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I was mentioning resistance, the primary component there is the weight.

Are you trying to hint that the Safari has Palar Challenge potential

Regards,

Arka
Yup, I was thinking of safari's potential for this challenge.
So if the engine has enough power to spin the wheels, then the heavy vehicle will dig in and sit on the axles.
As for weight, its acutally pressure. So if you have a light vehicle with very narrow tires, it will offer same pressure as a heavier vehicle with wider tires. Deflating tires widens the contact patch, hence the pressure is reduced.
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Old 7th August 2009, 14:11   #254
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Yup, I was thinking of safari's potential for this challenge.
So if the engine has enough power to spin the wheels, then the heavy vehicle will dig in and sit on the axles.
As for weight, its acutally pressure. So if you have a light vehicle with very narrow tires, it will offer same pressure as a heavier vehicle with wider tires. Deflating tires widens the contact patch, hence the pressure is reduced.
Sound Theory

How wide can you go? (for less than one inch side wall depth floatation)

CJ3B - 7.00X16 to 235/75/15

MM540 - 235/75/16 to 255/70/16

Nissan 4W73 - 8.25X20 i.e 250/100/20 (approx)

So how wide can you go on a Safari to achieve similar floatation?

Regards,

Arka
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Old 7th August 2009, 14:12   #255
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Yup, I was thinking of safari's potential for this challenge.
The safari may not be able to do the steep dunes, but may be able to run along with the organising fleet!

I'm not saying that the safari is incapable - its just that I've had no safari to test out there!

cheers
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