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Old 12th June 2009, 10:01   #76
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
It was a nice OTR -- but would have been more nicer if the number of vehicles were less.

IMHO, atleast 3-4 vehicles didn't deserve to be there and then there are some folks who are not just picking up techniques or tips even after attending so many OTR's.

Dwaraka, I think now we need to have few things mandatory and we can have a discussion in one of the long pending jeeper dinner gathering.
Khan,

We had atleast uninvited off roaders that day. IMHO, we can't curtail the enthu of offroaders.

Yes, as you rightly pointed out, some were not well equipped nor refined their OTR methods. Mostly happened by newbies. Tyres does play a major role. We will discuss these in one of the dinner outing shortly.

Offroaders, please suggest a convenient date acceptable to all for a dinner meet.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:51   #77
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
It was a nice OTR -- but would have been more nicer if the number of vehicles were less.

IMHO, atleast 3-4 vehicles didn't deserve to be there and then there are some folks who are not just picking up techniques or tips even after attending so many OTR's.

Also, they seem to be doing nothing to improve the capability of their vehicles and this is something that they need to now think of seriously.
Hi Shah Nawaz & Dwarka

JEEPTHRILLS follows a very inclusive culture for the OTRs; you will surely agree. I think we'll let it be at that,

Post up on all the forums or keep it private. lets not create bad blood by being selective.

Everyone deserves to be on the trail as long as they have a 4x4, do they deserve to succeed in an obstacle? let it remain in their hands and their vehicles.....don't kill their spirit.

Also does one really need to spruce his goose for a 'sunday outing'

Regards,

Arka
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Old 12th June 2009, 13:50   #78
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Arka,

Inclusive culture is still in vogue buddy. We are talking about limited number of vehicles to participate, which went up without invitations. However, we have not discouraged anybody from doing OTR. But, we are pointing out preparedness of their offroaders. This has to change for good of all.
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Old 12th June 2009, 16:40   #79
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Hi Khan_Sultan,

This seemed like an amazing session of offroading with a large number of vechiles. How many vechiles were there ?

I can well imagine the effort to manage a large vechiles.

Great Going Bangalore Offroaders

Regds

Amit
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Old 12th June 2009, 17:02   #80
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Whichever may be heavier, but just think about Safari. It pulls the weighs of safari owner head + its own weight. Wow, What a vehicle
I Fully agree in NIOC also we have had a couple of Safari 4x4 joining in. They are great performers and are full of surprises.

Though the OTR does leave loads of marks and dents all around the vechile but I guess, if its ok with the owner who are we to complain.

The overhang is a problem at the steep climbs so is its length on the narrow turns. Overall a excellent vechile.

I am still waiting to see the Xenon perform on the OTR. That with the same specs as Safari and lighter in weight would be a sight. I had seen a vedio of it getting tested on offroad in Argentina on Youtube that was WOW !!!

Regds

Amit
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Old 12th June 2009, 18:31   #81
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
...JEEPTHRILLS follows a very inclusive culture for the OTRs; you will surely agree.
100% Agree.

Quote:
Post up on all the forums or keep it private. lets not create bad blood by being selective.
This also I agree, however we can always have a qualifier by stating that first 'X' responses can go -- due to logistics etc reasons. Afterall, even OTR trails could have a limit on how many vehicles they can accommodate.

Still I would tend to say that even such kind could be private etc.

Quote:
Everyone deserves to be on the trail as long as they have a 4x4
I would qualify that by saying 'a fully working 4x4'. I am NOT talking any mods here. Just basic/simple 4x4 stuff.

Quote:
, do they deserve to succeed in an obstacle?
No, not necessary. Even the best with all preparations can get stuck and not complete an obstacle. However, if time and time again, in repeated OTR's you see the same pattern then you don;t feel good about it

Quote:
...Also does one really need to spruce his goose for a 'sunday outing'
Both, yes and no -- depending on the passion one has. For some it is 'just' an outing, for some it can be serious passion/commitment to off-roading

I do agree with the 'line of thought' that you are coming from -- don't kill someone's spirit & ensure that it remains inclusive.

That will for sure continue. If that were not the case, then Bangalore would not have had sooooooo many new off-road enthu folks in the last year itself.
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Old 13th June 2009, 10:17   #82
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
This also I agree, however we can always have a qualifier by stating that first 'X' responses can go -- due to logistics etc reasons. Afterall, even OTR trails could have a limit on how many vehicles they can accommodate.

Still I would tend to say that even such kind could be private etc.
Hi Shah Nawaz & Dwarka,

If you want to keep it private then don't post pre-event details on various forums. Just causes confusion.

Any Trail can accommodate any number of vehicles, question is can the Organizers make an idiot proof plan and manage the crowd.

This problem occurs when the pre-event preparations are not enough.


Regards,

Arka
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Old 13th June 2009, 14:36   #83
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I know one shouldn't speak when gurus are talking but Khan, Dwarka and Arka its a very important discussion topic and I feel with offroading getting so popular it is the right time to do it. Can we have an exclusive thread for that. I even know the best place for this thread. Our main "4x4 & Off-Roading" doesn't have a thread as yet. So what do you think?

We might come up with a nationwide point system for 4x4 machines (not person), like we have handicap in golf. And future serious OTRs can have qualification based on that, different OTRs can have different difficulty level, and free for all are free for all?? Or anything. That won’t kill the spirit as well as improve the quality of each OTR.

Regarding this OTR, along with the action I must compliment each individual photographer too. Each one has captured the OTR in a unique manner. So great-great stuff guys..

Last edited by Ym-enjn : 13th June 2009 at 14:49.
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Old 14th June 2009, 20:50   #84
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Hi Shah Nawaz & Dwarka,

If you want to keep it private then don't post pre-event details on various forums. Just causes confusion.

Any Trail can accommodate any number of vehicles, question is can the Organizers make an idiot proof plan and manage the crowd.

This problem occurs when the pre-event preparations are not enough.


Regards,

Arka

Arka,

This thread is a log of OTR , not announcement. Annouceent had been made in Jeepthrills and Suzuki-Gypsy. I hope you got clarified.

We are no moderators here. We do organise for fun and a bit of challenge. When we organised first OTR on Chikkathore, there were more than 36 vehicles. Should not say, most were happy, but some seniors including mods of jeepthrills felt we need to have lesser number of vehicles. This is the cue. Organising capabilities has never been issue here as you pointed out.

We do not want troube with forest department or locals. We can do the same trail in batches if needed.
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Old 14th June 2009, 22:30   #85
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Any Trail can accommodate any number of vehicles, question is can the Organizers make an idiot proof plan and manage the crowd.
Nope first line itself is wrong assumption, any trail abused by newb's over couple of try's can close doors for experts later on, especially on slush!

Idiot proof plan in an adrenalin rush situation, doesnt exist in my books
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Old 15th June 2009, 07:59   #86
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Idiot proof plan in an adrenalin rush situation, doesnt exist in my books
LOL Jaggu: can you explain yourself? One needs to consider safety while offroading and that is important!
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Old 15th June 2009, 14:18   #87
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Nope first line itself is wrong assumption, any trail abused by newb's over couple of try's can close doors for experts later on, especially on slush!

Idiot proof plan in an adrenalin rush situation, doesnt exist in my books
DAMN!!!!! I thought the experts could handle anything, well depends on the expertise
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Old 15th June 2009, 15:55   #88
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This is becoming more interesting than the accounting thread.
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Old 15th June 2009, 16:13   #89
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So do we have any experts with state of the art equipments out here, i thought all were claiming to be learners? just kidding

What i am saying is, in slush if the surface is dug up bad by the leading vehicles (read as JCB's job kinds) wont it be a hazzle for people trying it out later?? i think its important when to let go, which quite a few did in this OTR. Am sure they were watching with keen interest and jotting down in their heads how to tackle the trail better, next time around atleast.

@header: yes safety is of prime importance, but in an offroad situation where the participants range from veterans to new b's and that too in unlimited numbers, organizing the perfect event will have its own issues.

Add to this the audience who would push the newb's to try out stunts which need some amount of expertise in the first place. So an eventual bog down is inevitable, which will throw the schedule out, especially when the number of newb's are more. Doesnt it??

The whole charm of OTR on the other hand is NOT to have major plans, but focus on the trail which can be tackled by all at their own pace, but in a decent manner and NOT repeat mistakes as one learns how to hold the pedals and steering wheel.

Keeping vehicle in good health is another factor, even if it looks like a sheet of corroded metal, it should run well and should be upto the task. Otherwise it can throw the whole event out of shape.

Otherwise have advanced sessions with only veterans driving and one might have better chance at sticking to schedules.

ps: these are just observations and no expert advice!
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Old 15th June 2009, 17:38   #90
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
So do we have any experts with state of the art equipments out here, i thought all were claiming to be learners? just kidding

What i am saying is, in slush if the surface is dug up bad by the leading vehicles (read as JCB's job kinds) wont it be a hazzle for people trying it out later?? i think its important when to let go, which quite a few did in this OTR. Am sure they were watching with keen interest and jotting down in their heads how to tackle the trail better, next time around atleast.

@header: yes safety is of prime importance, but in an offroad situation where the participants range from veterans to new b's and that too in unlimited numbers, organizing the perfect event will have its own issues.

Add to this the audience who would push the newb's to try out stunts which need some amount of expertise in the first place. So an eventual bog down is inevitable, which will throw the schedule out, especially when the number of newb's are more. Doesnt it??

The whole charm of OTR on the other hand is NOT to have major plans, but focus on the trail which can be tackled by all at their own pace, but in a decent manner and NOT repeat mistakes as one learns how to hold the pedals and steering wheel.

Keeping vehicle in good health is another factor, even if it looks like a sheet of corroded metal, it should run well and should be upto the task. Otherwise it can throw the whole event out of shape.

Otherwise have advanced sessions with only veterans driving and one might have better chance at sticking to schedules.

ps: these are just observations and no expert advice!
HELL you figured all this out in ONE OTR, I thought it was just simple maths.

1-3 minutes per obstacle per vehicle X no. of vehicles X no. of obstacles = Total Time 4x4

If the recovery procedure is ill-planned add 5-10 mins per vehicle per obstacle, and you don't end up doing anything.

So if 30 vehicles participate 3X30 = 90 mins for the First Obstacle,

If there is not need for a plan we all might as well drive blindfolded, the act of observing and taking notes, and suggestions is PLANNING, the more you plan, the simpler you make it = Higher Probability of Success.

Why carry recovery gear, food, water & drinks.....if one looks at it like a Outdoor OTR Quickie.....that is when one gets JACKED.

The Preparation in on various Levels
1) Individual - Vehicle/Tyres/Lockers/Recovery Gear/Food & Water
2) Terrain - Entry/Exit/Obstacles/Run-Time/byepass
3) Personnel - Skill Level/Driving Order/Recovery Procedure/Contingency

3-30 vehicles don't matter if you have a sense of responsibility and the necessary preparation.

One hand you prefer it not to have "Major Plans" then you talk about the "schedule being thrown off"?

Advanced in INDIA means time SPENT - Not necessarily skill gathered.

If you go by that measure, ONLY Suresh Stephen deserved to be on the Trail.

He has got LSD,NDMS Tyres, Winch, Hi-Lift ,Grey Hair & Common Sense .

Regards,

Arka

PS - Personally the ONLY exception I make is for the TPC recce. Keep away the unprepared vehicles, and tell them upfront.
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