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Old 19th July 2009, 20:49   #46
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Waiting for others to put up pictures.

Overall I was surprised that no other 4x4 vehicle than M&M variants and the two GV's showed up. The Tuscon only was there at the start and end, but via the tarmac route. I was expecting some Gypsy's, Scorpios etc.

All the drivers followed the convoy and more or less kept to their places. This is important and you have to keep eye out for the front and back guy.

There was tremendous sense of fellowship in the group.

How did GV handle all this?

Well we needed tow at two places. The first was pure fun and I was in any case expecting it to get struck in the clay soil of the pond. But I was there for experience and wild drive and it was fun.

The second instance was an uphill incline. The jeeps before me could take slow left curve with their huge ground clreance giving them no trouble over a stump and huge hump in the middle. GV on the other hand would have beached if I had tken this line. So I was trying to find a line to the left which again was tilting the vehicle to right and the tyres would slide. Tried couple of times but eventually got struck and had to be pulled back wards.

There after had to go over totally rough terrain to skirt the hill. Here again it was criss cross over a rivulet bed and lots of elephant grass clumps. I was scared since by this time I was on my own and couple of times I had to do a quick back and forward to free the vehicle. I did not want to have to call for the tow again!
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Old 19th July 2009, 21:10   #47
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Thanks Sudev for the pictorial representation.


This was one of my best OTR till now. I was pretty amazed that we did not had any tyre puncture issues, except for the diesel tank puncture.

Tried various time crossing the slush part in Gurkha with variety of options and got stuck three times and crossed 3 times. The net result being, diff. locks and no momentum useless in slush. It was the moment in all three attempts which got us through. Might be tyre pressure to 30 psi were an disadvantage but with momentum the vehicle did make it through. SO Diff. Locks is not the panacea as it was been touted in many places in the forum in various threads.
Will be posting few pics in a day or two!

Last edited by rhandle : 19th July 2009 at 21:11.
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Old 19th July 2009, 21:16   #48
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the otr was great and thankfully there were not 25+ jeeps as originally expected.
the weather was not on our side unlike last time and the 40 degree heat mixed with dust and smoke really made things uncomfy but all that is part of the experience and enjoyable in its own way.
i think all the drivers at the otr today agreed that having soft roaders at otr's is a mistake that should not be repeated.
they get stuck at even the most basic challenges and take an hour to be freed while the rest of the true blue NON-AC off-roaders rot in the scorching heat with nothing to do.hats off to the seniors who were helping the GV'S.
this is not a personal attack at anyone or anything....but its just extremely annoying to have uncapable road vehicles getting stuck every 30 minutes trying to negotiate terrain which they were not designed for.
maybe the mods have some solution to this problem.
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Old 19th July 2009, 23:10   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0333 View Post
the weather was not on our side unlike last time and the 40 degree heat mixed with dust and smoke really made things uncomfy .....
i think all the drivers at the otr today agreed that having soft roaders at otr's is a mistake that should not be repeated.
they get stuck at even the most basic challenges ....
this is not a personal attack at anyone or anything....but its just extremely annoying to have uncapable road vehicles getting stuck every 30 minutes ......
Dear 0333
Iam glad you guys had great OTR. Would love to see more pictures.

Iam surprised to see you being so critical about Grand Vitara and softroaders like it. There's no point in inviting the all 4x4's and then calling it a mistake on the terrain no meant for them.

I think this is the mistake most of us do and later become critical about particular vehicle.Short wheelbases have a natural advantage and Jeep being a Jeep has its obvious advantage and same goes with Gypsy with its own merits. In a group where there are more number of M&M and Gypsys they obviously would try to conquer those obstacles which driver would feel it can do it. Other vehicles which are not built to do that cannot do it and there is no point being critical about it after inviting those vehicles.

Organisers must before hand inform which kind of vehicles can do what at a particular OTR. Calling a M&M for a Desert storm kind of racing and later being critical that these vehicles cannot exceed 70 kmph would look very silly.
MM series and Gypsy's cannot keep you comfortable at 40 degree celcius on jungle tracks which GV's can do. GV's are more comfortable for fast off track, jungle, gravel kind of roads doing the same thing in others is a pain! Sometimes old M&M's and Gypsys that fail due to some mechanical issues or the other but calling it a pain by Toyota owner is not justified.

I think in an OTR invitation should be terrain specific and vehicle specific based on senior people judgement and on recce's. Trying obstacles which others cant do due to dimensional disadvanatge and calling it a pain isnt the right thing.

I hope i have been able to put across my point.
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Old 20th July 2009, 00:24   #50
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Hey Sarab,..firstly thanks for hauling my A*@ out of the slush pit for being so over confidant with the Gurkha !! Serves me right !!

Coming to the GV's the GC was their biggest fall out. Wish they had a few inches more. Overhangs was another issue,..! The vehicle itself is capable but too expensive too push with abandon !! I guess that's what kept them (along with MWB and low GC)from performing to their limit !! But seriously we ought'ta hand it to them for being brave enough to push themselves and their vehicles thru the ordeal that it was. They did add some flavor to the event you will agree !
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Old 20th July 2009, 00:59   #51
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GV has longer wheelbase, IFS, lesser GC and low angle of entry/departure compared to Jeep/Gypsy. It is a great help on trail driving, but becomes a problem in no-road driving.
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Old 20th July 2009, 02:35   #52
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looks like you guys had some super weekend fun.

Waiting eagerly for full report and pics specially Gurkha.

cheers
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Old 20th July 2009, 06:31   #53
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Looks like MM ruled this OTR , no sight of any gypsy. Ankit, did you took your's??
Waiting for more pics.

Amar
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Old 20th July 2009, 08:23   #54
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Yes the MM's rule the roost !! The only vehicle which can (given the budget) out gun anything out there !! There is a reson the army uses 550's as standard issue. At one point Harjeev was pushing his 550 at 2nd low at a place where most would loose it even with 1st low. The engine was so relaxed slightly over idle rpm,,just a dab where needed at up UP Away we went !!

Now about the Gurkha,...apart from its exhorbidant price has made its mark at NIOC. It needs a more powerful engine but even in the current package is the most refined (relatively speaking)and capable off-roader in production ! The AC in 42+ degree heat helps too
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Old 20th July 2009, 09:47   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque-ative View Post

Now about the Gurkha,...apart from its exhorbidant price has made its mark at NIOC. It needs a more powerful engine but even in the current package is the most refined (relatively speaking)and capable off-roader in production ! The AC in 42+ degree heat helps too
Naveen yar it's not very high priced as per me. I cannot afford two vehicles one for self use and other for off-road like all others. This vehicle I just wash after OTR and am off to a Okish comforatble ride to my office. I "USE" it everyday. As per one of the senior member their MM have to be sent to garage after every OTR and incurr some expenses starting from 5000 onwards.

After speaking with Laxman and Romi I realised it's not the vehicle but the Driver who is able to clear the obstacle or not. I am just 7 months old Gurkha owner and 4 OTRs. Might be in few years down the line I would have increased my learning so as to able to work out the Gurkha better.
The worst problem is everything on Gurkha and it's capability we have to learn by trail and error method. There is no one and I dare to repeat no one out there with enough off-roading experience on this vehicle to guide me. Thanks to NIOC and the gang members letting me learn the tricks.

PS: Naveen you failed in your attempt while crossing slush was because you were driving with hand brakes ON, Laxman later pointed out this to me!
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Old 20th July 2009, 10:29   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
Looks like MM ruled this OTR , no sight of any gypsy. Ankit, did you took your's??
Waiting for more pics.

Amar
I was not able to go for the OTR as I had viral fever.

Will join in for the next one. hopefully we would have had some rain by then!!
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Old 20th July 2009, 10:42   #57
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Sudev can you e mail the Gps track to me on shahid0612@gmail.com please. I have Garmin Mapsource, Google earth enabled, and also Fugawi software for Garmin GPS unit, I did see a Garmin 12 satellite unit in your car yesterday, so I guess the track will be compatible on my own Garmin GPS II plus or III plus units.
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Old 20th July 2009, 10:48   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Waiting for others to put up pictures.

Overall I was surprised that no other 4x4 vehicle than M&M variants and the two GV's showed up. The Tuscon only was there at the start and end, but via the tarmac route. I was expecting some Gypsy's, Scorpios etc.

All the drivers followed the convoy and more or less kept to their places. This is important and you have to keep eye out for the front and back guy.

There was tremendous sense of fellowship in the group.

How did GV handle all this?

Well we needed tow at two places. The first was pure fun and I was in any case expecting it to get struck in the clay soil of the pond. But I was there for experience and wild drive and it was fun.

The second instance was an uphill incline. The jeeps before me could take slow left curve with their huge ground clreance giving them no trouble over a stump and huge hump in the middle. GV on the other hand would have beached if I had tken this line. So I was trying to find a line to the left which again was tilting the vehicle to right and the tyres would slide. Tried couple of times but eventually got struck and had to be pulled back wards.

There after had to go over totally rough terrain to skirt the hill. Here again it was criss cross over a rivulet bed and lots of elephant grass clumps. I was scared since by this time I was on my own and couple of times I had to do a quick back and forward to free the vehicle. I did not want to have to call for the tow again!
No Sir, I was watching you from the road ahead, and was ready with a tow strap and shackles of Suzuki GV size as well to tow you out in case of any trouble. had your tires come off the rim I was ready with a bushranger air compressor, jacks and other rescue equipment as well, including tubeless tires puncture repair kits.

It was only after you all made it safetly up was that we moved off to join rest of the convoy. because you were not able to make the hill, and there was another Suzuki Grand Vitara behind, plus other novice off roaders too, it was for your benefit that I cut an alternate route to circumvent round this hill. There was a Jeep stuck on top of the hill as well, it would have been trouble parking vehicles on the top. I was aware of the situation and getting the information from there on radio.

I was avoiding getting out of my Jeep too much yesterday was because I was in pain, having badly bruised my knees and elbows during a fall on the rocks earlier during the very first climb ( I was on foot that time ). Still cant walk properly or bend my knees today but should be OK in a few days.

We do have various other 4x4 vehicles in the NIOC too. BMWX5, Scorpio4x4, Ford Endy 4x4, some Gypsies, it was only incedental that none of these turned up yesterday, NIOC has over 100 members as of date. The Gypsy King 1300 cc MPFI with its 80 bhp power would take these hill climbs with aplomb, the only demerit being its bigger wheelbase. But where MM550s could crawl through between the bushes and the testing hill curves on climbs and descents so would a Gypsy.

Shahid

Last edited by desertfox : 20th July 2009 at 11:01.
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Old 20th July 2009, 11:20   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
Naveen yar it's not very high priced as per me. I cannot afford two vehicles one for self use and other for off-road like all others. This vehicle I just wash after OTR and am off to a Okish comforatble ride to my office. I "USE" it everyday.
Rahul
I agree with you on this that keeping 2 vehicle instead of one does help and is definitely more sensible!!!


Quote:
As per one of the senior member their MM have to be sent to garage after every OTR and incur some expenses starting from 5000 onwards.
But what I do not agree is the above statement. Maybe some of the vehicles have to be sent to the garage for some work or something after OTR's but I think majority of the MM550 owners including myself have never spent anything like that on maintenance!!!

Infact I've had my MM550 and the CJ3B for almost 3 months now (since I've got taken the delivery after the initial overhaul).

Now even if I include the repair & maintenance costs of both these combined, the max that I must have spent is not more than 3000 bucks!!! And Ive attended 3 recces and I think 4 or maybe 5 OTR's.

And this includes reverse light, some electrical work that were pending and 1 pair of tubes for my NDMS tyres (CJ3B) that I had to buy post the Faridabad recce!!!


Even after the yesterday's OTR, all I did was send my driver to the local service station for a pressure wash (250 bucks) & tomorrow Ill send it to Mayapuri for change of Clutch cable (as the old one has become very hard) and the usual tightening of nuts and bolts.
This I am doing after the MM550 attended the 3 OTR in 3 months!!!

And on a personal note if I had an expensive off-roader like the Gurkha or any expensive 4x4, me personally, I will never be able to abuse it in such a way that I will abuse my MM550 or my CJ3B.

Last edited by harjeev : 20th July 2009 at 11:21.
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Old 20th July 2009, 11:27   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
I was not able to go for the OTR as I had viral fever.

Will join in for the next one. hopefully we would have had some rain by then!!

May be if there is any OTR in mid of september, i might jump in as well.

Few questions
1) Is there any offorading club in chandigarh?
2) Are they as active as NOIC chapter?

Amar
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