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Old 15th April 2010, 17:02   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy View Post
Vinod
I have only mentioned the points as constructive criticism. If this gets into a "fight" then I am sorry I will not participate further.

I have seen rally's being organised and my points were brought up after that.
1) Recce's are done by the organisers.
2) Organisers do not participate.
3) Volunteers (or Marshalls in rally's) are not taken to recce's

The above are just a few points that I remember.

TPC is a world class event - no doubt.

A recce as I understand is meant to plot out the route. This means that the obstacles have to be crossed during the recce.
Please note that when you take people (read participants) along for the recce's YOU ARE TAKING THEM ON THE ROUTE!!!

And Vinod/TPC organisers I do not have the interest or the inclination to participate in any sarcasm fights. Please take this as constructive criticism.


Cheers
GB
GB,
There is no fight baba! I am generally a very cool guy. I am just trying to explain you. Just quoting your lines-

1) Recce's are done by the organisers.- Arka & organisers part with participants and go separately on their own and mark the obstacles. Participants practice on some other obstacles. We just go to the spot together.

2) Organisers do not participate.- They do not participate here as well

3) Volunteers (or Marshalls in rally's) are not taken to recce's- Here, there is a very thin line between organizers and Volunteers. They need to be taken there to show them in person. They are just not an object manning the post. They have scorecards with them and they record everything.


May be Arka will be able to explain you better. GB, why don't you join for a recce to know how is it actually done? BTW do you plan to participate this time? You are the nearest of all so no excuses!
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Old 15th April 2010, 17:10   #62
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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
2) Organisers do not participate.- They do not participate here as well

!
matter closed then,

let them go seperately if they want to
you saying these special stages are not driven over and tried during the recce, you might not tell them that these are the special stages but are they not tried and tested
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Old 15th April 2010, 18:03   #63
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Guys - the palar is no track you drive on practice on and familiarize yourself with , this is no terrain one can master even if you had your house there and were driving to and from it every single day.
you can have nice firm drivable sand on one day and soft and soggy on another day in the same spot.
forget about 8 recces you can do 20 and yet be in for a surprise on the day of the challenge.
this is a team based event and its not just you or your machine , it takes six to tango here and not just two.
then there is the heat that youll have to put up with and that takes team work too , not just you and the sun.
we are all here for the love of offroading , the experience and the spirit of it winning the podium isnt all.

Thats what offroading is all about isnt it trying to get over obstacles whatever it be.

Please do come drive and see for yourself 1st you'll know what i'm talking about.
cheers
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Old 15th April 2010, 18:47   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme power View Post
Arka sir,
On a very serious non-argumentative note how fair is it, for competitors to take part in the recces, especially when you plan to have eight of them.
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Originally Posted by King413 View Post
Hi Arka,
I second Allans thoughts on this bit. To keep the competitive spirit the recce and route a surprise to all participants, though locals will have an advantage knowing the terrain from past experience...

Prithvi
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme power View Post
matter closed then,

let them go seperately if they want to
you saying these special stages are not driven over and tried during the recce, you might not tell them that these are the special stages but are they not tried and tested
Hi guys, Specifically Allan, GB, Prithvi and team of others who have raised a very very valid POV.

Firstly, I have particiapated in all recces last year and did NOT win. Secondly I did NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY RECCE in 2008 and WON 1st. [In all fairness my team came p1] Now please decide for yourselves whether it is better or not to do a recce..

Now, as VN has put it. We guys actually never get to know the SS. A general survey of the terrain is sighted and Arka and his team of boys plan something.

All we have is to try on anything we want knowing well that help is around the corner. Also, when we modify / prepare a vehicle, we get to see whether our modifications are worthy or not..As VN puts it, infact you guys have an advantage seeing the pictures of our mods knowing whether they work or NOT.

I've been to Palar since 2007 and have built more than 1 vehicle based on my OTR requirements. TRUST me, that goddamn terrain CHANGES everytime and thats why I keep going BACK.

Looking back I think the best is to understand and apply your mind rather than criticise / speculate on others.

I welcome, all of you, any of you, to just come down to Chennai on any recce dates and i'm sure, you will be taken along with the band of organisers.

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE PRACTISING ON ANY SS for all we care that SS might disappear the next time we visit the site due to massive sand quarrying.

Hope this clarifies:

PS: BTW Allan, you are not getting away from that DRAG with me:

Cheers
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Old 15th April 2010, 19:00   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy View Post
Allan is right in pointing this out,
Allan you missed out that these recce's help the participants familiarise themselves with the terrain/route - they will learn (over the 8 recce's) which line to take to cross an obstacle.
First why are there 8 recce's? but more importantly, why are the recce's being advertised on the forum?
And why is there an open invitation for people to participate in these recce's?

The organisers should conduct the recce's within a closed group. And this group should not participate in the competition.

Volunteers should be taken on the route just prior to the actual competition.

Just my thoughts - this is not meant as a personal assault at anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy View Post
Vinod
I have only mentioned the points as constructive criticism. If this gets into a "fight" then I am sorry I will not participate further.

I have seen rally's being organised and my points were brought up after that.
1) Recce's are done by the organisers.
2) Organisers do not participate.
3) Volunteers (or Marshalls in rally's) are not taken to recce's

The above are just a few points that I remember.

TPC is a world class event - no doubt.

A recce as I understand is meant to plot out the route. This means that the obstacles have to be crossed during the recce.
Please note that when you take people (read participants) along for the recce's YOU ARE TAKING THEM ON THE ROUTE!!!

And Vinod/TPC organisers I do not have the interest or the inclination to participate in any sarcasm fights. Please take this as constructive criticism.
Hi Gyspy-Boy,

The Recce's are advertised so that everyone (Competitor & Organizer) has a chance to attend them, that is why we have announced them so early, to give every competitor time to attend the recce.

The Recce's to Train the Organizers and Familiarize them with a lot of things.

Volunteers For TPC 10

Don't you think all the recce details actually help the Competitors prepare and get a chance to understand a bit about what they are likely to face?

Why 8 Recce's

1) because this is THE PALAR CHALLENGE.

2) To weed out the Pussies.

3)While most Off-Road event have 80-100 vehicles, and a nice long trail, the spread of obstacles is not as exhaustive, especially since this is a 2 Day out and out Off-Road Competition.

THE SPREAD AND DIFFICULTY OF OBSTACLES IN THE PALAR CHALLENGE IS UNMATCHED IN INDIA.

And Attention of Detail, every man must explicitly know what to do and how to react in an emergency, that is why 8 Recce's.

Participants: Anyone who has anything to do with TPC
i) Organizers: Those who organize the event. (O-Team)
ii) Competitors: Who Compete in teams of 3 vehicles/6 Competitors.

What is your basis of making constructive criticism?
As things stand the recce's are open to all the participants.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 15th April 2010, 19:35   #66
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Just a small additional point " You cannot practice in Palar " as Headers , Traveler quoted because of simple reason - Its a NATURAL TRACK not man made.

If this was Palar last year
TPC10 - India's Toughest 4x4 Off-Road Competition-img_6643.jpg

It would be like this during the rains
TPC10 - India's Toughest 4x4 Off-Road Competition-palar.jpg

And after Rains its would be like

Name:  green_question_mark.jpg
Views: 1169
Size:  197.1 KB

So where is practice and knowing obstacle - just making ourselves and the vehicles ready or " SEASONING OURSELVES "
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Old 15th April 2010, 19:40   #67
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@Allan: There is a home ground advantage. Yes.
But, it is the terrain ONLY. To be more specific, its sand and the kind of sand. Nothing else.
You could find the same/similar terrain in any dried up/ partially dried up river bed in any part of this country.
Its easier than the sand you find in beaches. Except that there will be tall climbs, descents, etc. with a dose of wet sand thrown in the mix.

Now talking about advantages, Lets talk technical as well.
As of today, there are no separate classes/ categories in this competition which means you can bring your land rover/jeep with diff locks/lsd/lockers, extreme suspension, extreme tyres, onboard air compressors, high lift jacks, multiple winches, line locks, etc.
And the guy next to you would perhaps be running a bone stock Mahindra 540.
Anybody can tell for sure who's at an advantage here.

Finally, what matters most:
In 2009, there were two people that were supposedly brilliant and won the prizes for that.
1. Sean Hameed - People still rave about his gearshifts and how he drove a bone stock MG413W without ever having set foot on the soil before.
2.Karthik(right?) - This gentleman who'd come down from Kerala was absolutely brilliant with a Mahindra Classic and won the fastest time of the day.

Both of them weren't from here. But, they did it.
It was purely SKILL.

In motorsports, Please do not EVER underestimate the 'skill' component in the mix.
The difference between a novice, amateur, seasoned and expert is MASSIVE.

Last edited by nitrous : 15th April 2010 at 19:43.
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Old 15th April 2010, 19:48   #68
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
In motorsports, Please do not EVER underestimate the 'skill' component in the mix.
The difference between a novice, amateur, seasoned and expert is MASSIVE.
A +10 to that

BTW, Allan, when are you coming? Time to move on...
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Old 15th April 2010, 20:43   #69
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Originally Posted by the traveller View Post
Please do come drive and see for yourself 1st you'll know what i'm talking about.
cheers
This comes from the Winner of TPC09. Do we need to say more? If the winner wants to hold onto winning every year, then why would he invite everyone?

THINK, guys, The Palar is even bigger than its organisers

Last edited by headers : 15th April 2010 at 20:44.
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Old 16th April 2010, 06:42   #70
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
Alright. Time to create a list.

For now we will focus on the recee.

1) Bala - Volunteer/Organizer
2) Vijay - Organizer?
3) Ram.West and group - Organizers
4) Vikram - Participant
5) Karthi - Organizer
5) Arka - Organizer
6) Deep - Organizer
7) Vinod - TPC 2010 Chief Guest

Guys please keep adding to the list who will be joining us for the Recee.

lol..

Ok, on a serious note:

Point 1: The organizer team takes their job very very seriously. I know you get the impression that the Chennai Participants have a home advantage, but I say no. Not any more than the advantage they have had by participating in the past OTRs. All they know is how the terrain is.

Point 2: Palar terrain is a dry river bed with three or four entry points and is spread over many kilometers in length. If you have ever seen a dry river bed before, then you can imagine.If I were to stand on a spot in the river bed and look across, the person standing next to me would not be able to judge what obstacle I'm planning as a special stage because of the amount of obstacles present.. Plus there are infinite obstacles on a river bed. Hell anything can be an obstacle.You could come for a recee and drive for hours maybe within the three or more kilometers where we went in to recee and you would not have covered even half the obstacles there. Hence unless an organiser points out a special stage you would not even know that, again this is impossible because of my next point.

Point 3: As you can see on the recee schedule, the last recee has the organizer's briefing. Only then are the special stages really decided and confirmed. The other recee's are to get ideas and to get creative. Even then special care is taken to make sure no implications are hints are given on the types of special stages. Obviously anyone who is present in the organizers meeting are not allowed to participate.

@Allen: You had mentioned about how you would not participate if you had gone for a recee as you considered unfair. Well let me tell you this.

I speak for Chennai JEEPers, when I say none of us would ever want to win anything unfairly. It would be beneath ourselves.

The most important point is TPC is not about winning. It is about team work.

As they say in the Fauj, you never know what it is until you are in the middle of it.

With this I consider this matter closed.

So Arka,

Please tell us a little bit about organizers role in TPC. This would be useful for newbies who are interested to be a part of it.
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Old 16th April 2010, 10:14   #71
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I would like to say that TPC is now growing - TPC is attracting international drivers/teams.

I admit that I had a misconception (thanks to VN for clearing it )
But I think this misconception was not only with me but with lots of others too. (and hopefully it has been cleared for them too)

Dunno if I can come for this years TPC - my 5 month daughter likes me to spend time with her (or is it the other way around?!) and she doesn't like the heat.

Cheers
GB
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Old 16th April 2010, 11:36   #72
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Dunno if I can come for this years TPC - my 5 month daughter likes me to spend time with her (or is it the other way around?!) and she doesn't like the heat.
LOL GB, anyways i doubt whether a 5 month old can understand TPC or its rules and the terrain. If I were in your shoes, I'd come alone.

Cheers

BTW, You guys think Chennai is HOT or you cant withstand the HEAT? Which one is it?
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Old 16th April 2010, 11:49   #73
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Guys: I am planning to bring my Scorpio 4x4. But when the going gets tough, the tough need to get going, which means, I will have to park my Scorpio and take a ride with one of you guys :-).

Are we meeting some place on Sunday morning?
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Old 16th April 2010, 11:59   #74
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys: I am planning to bring my Scorpio 4x4. But when the going gets tough, the tough need to get going, which means, I will have to park my Scorpio and take a ride with one of you guys :-).

Are we meeting some place on Sunday morning?
Hi Tini,

We are meeting up at Maj. Roy's Camp 0800hrs.

You can get the Scorpio, well into the riverbed, we will be trying out LAST Year (TPC09) Special Stages.

A few the Scorpio can do without any problems, the rest hop into the JEEPs.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 16th April 2010, 12:10   #75
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Hi guys, Specifically Allan, GB, Prithvi and team of others who have raised a very very valid POV........
Thanks for considering our POV, trust Arka and team to keep it that way and not give some participants an advantage and the keep the platform flat for all.....

I have a feel that the biggest challange for a BLR Gper is the heat and no ......

LOL

Prithvi

Last edited by khan_sultan : 16th April 2010 at 13:19. Reason: cleanup
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