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Old 26th May 2010, 15:58   #76
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
IIRC, you did not do anything in the second spot either. You just drove all the way to the OTR to be around with some great long lost friends of yours
You just left everyone and ran off with prithvi to do the next trail. and then told me to guide everyone in totality. After the first 3 vehicles went into the slush, it was just plain time-pass to do that slush pit.

We got guided off the place in totality thereafter
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Old 26th May 2010, 16:13   #77
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@jaggu - just saw the video of your climb , you had almost made it.
you would have made it if ur jeep had not veered to the left halfway up the incline.
In my opinion the best line to tackle this is to go for it STRAIGHT, stay in center. keep aiming for the aim for the big tree on top as direction change on the slippery incline is unpredictable. and start to turn left only after you have crossed 3/4 of the incline.
I guess so Sidhu, but i was told to take the left side, and i made it up also. But there was a second mount in front of the LT front tire, which is why Prithvi sat on the hood, so that ill get some traction and somehow bounce it off. But at that kind of incline it didn't work and with NDMS with full inflation was just slipping in all 4 wheels without moving an inch.

Secondly the center line was badly dug up by previous vehicles, and this time the rains on the previous days had made the spot very slippery. Even the climb was slick. Actually Robi cleared the grass and exposed more harder bottom layers on his previous tries, that helped the NDMS to grip on the slop. Good part was run up has somehow firmed up and only the last 10 foot is soft, but super soft.

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@shahnawaz - was the rut/ditch deeper this time?
I have a faint feeling it has, by just looking at the two pictures itself, quite natural also since each time we try we dig deep and then its just covered with soft mud or sand with the rain/water flow.

Just inferring since i haven't seen the earlier state in person.
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Old 26th May 2010, 16:26   #78
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@jaggu - just saw the video of your climb , you had almost made it.
you would have made it if ur jeep had not veered to the left halfway up the incline.
He would have made it if he had better tyres

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@wanky - you should have tried it .
He he.. boss, he gets stuck on plain ground with even a hint of slush -- spinning his tyres. You think he would have tried it out ?

Pearl Valley May 23rd, Totally Unplanned OTR! (Report Update on Page 1).-a10.jpg

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@shahnawaz - was the rut/ditch deeper this time?
It's getting bigger & deeper with every OTR we do.
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Old 26th May 2010, 16:30   #79
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The slush: it is deeper on the right side. The slope: had better tractionable area in the right side.

The left portion of the slope has a rock strategically placed by the mountain Gods (the same being that ensure we have a winch-able tree bang at where it is needed!)

So, tricky situation.

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Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
...In my opinion the best line to tackle this is to go for it STRAIGHT, stay in center. keep aiming for the aim for the big tree on top as direction change on the slippery incline is unpredictable. and start to turn left only after you have crossed 3/4 of the incline...
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Old 26th May 2010, 16:47   #80
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@khan - LOL!! SUPER PIC!! the look on wanky's face is priceless - trying so hard not to lose "face"!
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Old 26th May 2010, 16:53   #81
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How do you select the right torque?
Ofcos through trials, unless we have torque selector buttons in future

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I remember somebody mentioning about the danger of hitting the nose to the steering at the incline point. In that light, would you recommend long run up?
Guess thats the only way up theoretically! I am proposing to float off the rut on to the embankment directly with momentum, cant help the thuddd anyway. Ofcos not after an invader has passed by as we all noticed that the invader going in first didnt help the cause in any way.
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Hi Wolf,

So did you make the climb and what quantities of the above did you use in "x" combination, and same for the clay pit.
If I had gone already you definitely would have seen my photos, stunts and praises here, wouldnt you?? LOL! On a serious note there are a few things that have to be fixed in my 540 (just 10 days old since I got it you see) before I could try a rut like that. Also when the pro's were having trouble I thought it would be smarter to wait, watch, learn before giving it a rookie shot to try beginners luck.

BTW, in my modification list seat belts have just made a brand new entry This OTR for me was to assess what all needs to go into my jeep on priority before the next OTR and boy I tell ya I have a long list already!!!!

Regards,

Arka

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PS - Theory if Fine, but is it sound
Only trials will testify that Im guessing.

Last edited by The Wolf : 26th May 2010 at 17:05.
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Old 26th May 2010, 17:12   #82
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Guess thats the only way up theoretically! I am proposing to float off the rut with momentum. Ofcos not after an invader has passed by as we all noticed that the invader going in first didnt help the cause in any way.
like in rally eh? Did you try to reach other end atleast by foot before the invader passed?
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Old 26th May 2010, 17:19   #83
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like in rally eh? Did you try to reach other end atleast by foot before the invader passed?
Apparently he refused to get down to even get the tow rope onto his pintle hook to get him out of the mess he had *later* gotten himself into

Everybody kept talking about the mount etc...nobody ventured by foot to actually check it out. We missed Vinay Thomas and his gumboots!
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Old 26th May 2010, 17:22   #84
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
He would have made it if he had better tyres



He he.. boss, he gets stuck on plain ground with even a hint of slush -- spinning his tyres. You think he would have tried it out ?

Attachment 355857



It's getting bigger & deeper with every OTR we do.
Sir, there was another reason why I did not do the slush. I was wearing hawaii chappals that day. I knew I would get stuck, and then have to wade into the slush pit barefoot to get the tow rope hooked on.

I had just done pedicure the previous evening.
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Old 26th May 2010, 17:28   #85
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like in rally eh? Did you try to reach other end atleast by foot before the invader passed?
Star, may be I have but thats not the point really, I dont know if you were there but if you were you wouldve noticed that Jaggu's Willys being noticeably lighter didnt nose dive as hard as the invader or the 540 that went in before. He couldve managed to go past "in my opinion" purely with the momentum he had gained (pretty decent run-up for a much lighter machine) already. Hey, I am trying to reason this out scientifically, would help if only you could add in those lines...the idea is to be able to make it past that rut atleast the next time around. I am trying to reason the cause in all possible ways,may be that way, collectively, next time around we will have altleast 1 jeep making it through.

p.s: If it takes the rally style approach so be it, atleast its taken one jeep the otherside if it will you see

Oye Redliner: Incorrect, the mis-information you have received isnt me, its of another guy who had accompanied me, he was at the pintle hook job... I was on the driving seat at that time sitting still recovering from radical stunts I tried to get outa that muck.

Last edited by The Wolf : 26th May 2010 at 17:36.
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:21   #86
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I still feel I needed lil less momentum and better traction on tires. I took it too fast, the CJ3B doesn't need so much speed since it's lighter and tighter due to SWB.

Somebody get the permissions fast
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:28   #87
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As a matter of fact, I think Jaggu could have cleared it if he tried it First, Robi's aggressive Tyre Cleared off all Grass there which could have helped to gain some momentum. IIRC Last time, Prithvi cleared it with Ravichandran's Petrol CJ3B. But yes, it still remains a Challenge for MWBs (Excluding Gypsies). And i still hold the credit of spending longest time in that ditch getting bogged down.

Thanks
--Sree--

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:51   #88
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I still feel I needed lil less momentum and better traction on tires. I took it too fast, the CJ3B doesn't need so much speed since it's lighter and tighter due to SWB.

Somebody get the permissions fast
You serious? Lesser momentum would mean no inertia to take you past the deepest point of the rut on to the embankment...that would mean complete concentration on the tyres to lug from the deepest point of the rut on to the incline and above!!! Wouldnt that mean starting off from almost stationary from the bottom of the pit? If the rut was anywhere close to the below pic, think of taking the embankment without momentum assisted inertia. Man this ones mouth wateringly interesting, who can get the permission???

Pearl Valley May 23rd, Totally Unplanned OTR! (Report Update on Page 1).-pearl-valley.jpg
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Old 26th May 2010, 19:19   #89
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After looking at the way Jaggu went and hit the embankment, it would be foolhardy to try more momentum. You are invariably crashing against a wall. So something will just break like mentioned before. Either your neck or nose, or worse - something on the jeep.

Taller tyres, with better mud plugging abilities and a nice low crawl gear ratio will just pull you up over the embankment (the embankment is covered in slush, your tyres need to dig deeper to claw at the rock on which the slush is). In all our cases, the tyres lost grip and did not self clean by the time they hit the embankment. Jaggu very nearly got there due to momentum - agreed - but it was just not worth the risk of suspension damage to the jeep. Taller tyres and lesser momentum would have got him up easily.

You need just enough momentum to carry you over the embankment without hurting yourself. So something about 60% the speed at which Jaggu went would have been ideal (with taller tyres ofcourse).

Not everything is speed and aggressive driving...

Last edited by Red Liner : 26th May 2010 at 19:23.
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Old 26th May 2010, 19:41   #90
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You serious? Lesser momentum would mean no inertia to take you past the deepest point of the rut on to the embankment...that would mean complete concentration on the tyres to lug from the deepest point of the rut on to the incline and above!!!
I said lesser that doesn't mean crawl. I say this because i know my vehicle well, knows its capabilities to around 70%, so if i had saved the energy by reducing the violent jump/rebound etc, this lighter vehicle would stand a better chance to climb up. I think 50% of momentum was killed with the violent hit. So if i had reduced the momentum a lil the wastage would have been better handled, without undue effect on the exit momentum.

Did you notice how Venki and Sundeep were climbing the pit at the second spot, where long wheel base and heavier vehicles took a very different approach? So different vehicle, different approach.

Again if i had better grip/flotation with either a better tire or lower air pressure, i feel i would have had better chance.

Previous week i had a long conversation with UBS on the aspect of NDMS tires playing spoil sport, he reminded me of his Quiz. Why CJ3B's for US military came with foot air pumps? the fool in me went technical and thought it was clearing up clogged fuel pump and carbs The real answer was these tires are very versatile if you use it wisely, ie deflate to 15 psi for mud and maybe even lesser for soft sand and thats how world war was won.

Getting into technical discussions are very healthy, but once you start driving these OTR's it will give you a more wider perspective of techniques, where more theories of physics will come into picture. Momentum for me is just the tip of the iceberg.

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After looking at the way Jaggu went and hit the embankment, it would be foolhardy to try more momentum. You are invariably crashing against a wall. So something will just break like mentioned before. Either your neck or nose, or worse - something on the jeep.

Taller tyres, with better mud plugging abilities and a nice low crawl gear ratio will just pull you up over the embankment (the embankment is covered in slush, your tyres need to dig deeper to claw at the rock on which the slush is). In all our cases, the tyres lost grip and did not self clean by the time they hit the embankment. Jaggu very nearly got there due to momentum - agreed - but it was just not worth the risk of suspension damage to the jeep. Taller tyres and lesser momentum would have got him up easily.

You need just enough momentum to carry you over the embankment without hurting yourself. So something about 60% the speed at which Jaggu went would have been ideal (with taller tyres ofcourse).

Not everything is speed and aggressive driving...
^^^^ almost completely in agreement for a change Mr Venky he he. Myabe 70-75% speed of what i did. And i remember hearing you in the video, use 3rd low no no 4th. I tell you these innocent jeeper's!!!

Arghhhh another meeting so will get back after a bit.
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