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Old 26th May 2010, 19:45   #91
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
After looking at the way Jaggu went and hit the embankment, it would be foolhardy to try more momentum. You are invariably crashing against a wall. So something will just break like mentioned before. Either your neck or nose, or worse - something on the jeep.
I wouldnt disagree but without momentum I dont think, in this case, it would even be possible to reach the embankment as the slush starts much before the rut, remember? But yes, more momentum means bigger thudd for sure but I guess sometimes that is the only way out unless defiance of laws of physics happen yet again!!!

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
a nice low crawl gear ratio will just pull you up over the embankment (the embankment is covered in slush, your tyres need to dig deeper to claw at the rock on which the slush is).
Crawling slowly through a gooey rut with a slippery incline in front with bigger tyres clawing on the rock underneath the slime??? Hmm...dont know about that, really!!! Doesnt sound too doable at the face value but Im sure you guys wouldve done it several times before so no reason for me to contemplate otherwise as well.

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Not everything is speed and aggressive driving...
Wow, where is that coming from now??

Last edited by The Wolf : 26th May 2010 at 19:48.
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Old 26th May 2010, 20:22   #92
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Damn.. How I wish my Gypsy was not grounded and I had it with me there. Would have shown how it is done It is one of my favorite climbs and have lured many an unsuspecting vehicles into getting stuck -- like this TLC who was following me

Pearl Valley May 23rd, Totally Unplanned OTR! (Report Update on Page 1).-img0108a.jpg

This is how I do it every time:

Just crawl up to the edge of the slush, gain steady momentum from there and once your front tyres are out of the pit/base of incline, just gun it up.

Ofcourse, having proper M/T tyres, adequate crawl ratios, revving when required & locked rear diff helps

Last edited by khan_sultan : 26th May 2010 at 20:38.
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Old 26th May 2010, 20:24   #93
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Never follow Spidey in a OTR trail (Old Jungle Saying)
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Old 26th May 2010, 20:33   #94
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
I wouldnt disagree but without momentum I dont think, in this case, it would even be possible to reach the embankment as the slush starts much before the rut, remember? But yes, more momentum means bigger thudd for sure but I guess sometimes that is the only way out unless defiance of laws of physics happen yet again!!!
Read what I said properly. I said use 60% of Jaggu's momentum. Where did I say dont use momentum at all? Do you know what will happen if you use more momentum?

You will crash into the wall
You will lose sight from the windscreen
You will have no control over the vehicle as it jumps up the embankment

And when you dont have control over a vehicle while doing a stunt like this (yes, your suggestion is a stunt), then you're in deep trouble.

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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Crawling slowly through a gooey rut with a slippery incline in front with bigger tyres clawing on the rock underneath the slime??? Hmm...dont know about that, really!!! Doesnt sound too doable at the face value but Im sure you guys wouldve done it several times before so no reason for me to contemplate otherwise as well.
Taller tyres, and a more powerful free revving motor with a very low crawl ratio WILL do it with 60% of the momentum and NO crashing against the wall. Spidey and Dwarf can do it.

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Wow, where is that coming from now??
From experience and breaking parts. Everyone including you should have this experience...who are we to stop you
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:04   #95
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
You serious? Lesser momentum would mean no inertia to take you past the deepest point of the rut on to the embankment...that would mean complete concentration on the tyres to lug from the deepest point of the rut on to the incline and above!!! Wouldnt that mean starting off from almost stationary from the bottom of the pit?
Question was asked.

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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Just crawl up to the edge of the slush, gain steady momentum from there and once your front tyres are out of the pit/base of incline, just gun it up.

Ofcourse, having proper M/T tyres, adequate crawl ratios, revving when required & locked rear diff helps
Answer has been given.

I witnessed the futility of momentum in a similar situation as this one in the very first OTR in my Jeep. The Gurkha tried to do momentum method and both the rear tyres went up 3ft in air. If my dSLR had not Auto-OFFed, I would have had the image preserved for you to see.

Going by the detailed diagram given by Wolf, I can say traction is the key here. The traction can come from mud tyres or diff-locks or terrain. Without traction, this is a no go. I am purely going by the diagram.
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:11   #96
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
... Either your neck or nose, or worse - something on the jeep...
Good statement, RL! It will be only here where 'breaking something on the jeep' is termed as worse than breaking a nose / neck!

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
... Taller tyres and lesser momentum would have got him up easily...
He could have tried with lesser pressure. This might have given him better traction.

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
...Not everything is speed and aggressive driving...



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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Damn.. How I wish my Gypsy was not grounded and I had it with me there...
Was just going to pose this question!

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Never follow Spidey in a OTR trail (Old Jungle Saying)
Let me rephrase that - "Never follow Spidey in any OTR trails"!

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
...From experience and breaking parts. Everyone including you should have this experience...who are we to stop you
He said that he got the vehicle just 10 days back. Give him few more OTR's and few more visits to garage to fix broken things, re-look at existing configuration. He will get his "experience".
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:43   #97
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For this climb, i would put it like this:
1) Good articulation with soft suspension
2) Wider tires(soft rubber) with MT pattern with reduced pressure. NDMS does good job till you cross the pit but it will fail during the climb. My tractor climbed with NDMS once . For NDMS either you need to reduce the tire pressure or increase the load on it to gain more traction.
3) Constant throttle from the beginning till end.. when you bump into the pit, you will lift your foot off the accelerator. this is where you will loose all your effort. point #1 will help a lot in this.

my 3 cents..
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:45   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
I wouldnt disagree but without momentum I dont think, in this case, it would even be possible to reach the embankment as the slush starts much before the rut, remember?
===========
Crawling slowly through a gooey rut with a slippery incline in front with bigger tyres clawing on the rock underneath the slime??? Hmm...dont know about that, really!!! Doesnt sound too doable at the face value but Im sure you guys wouldve done it several times before so no reason for me to contemplate otherwise as well.
Run up is not bad, i have already posted and yes please have a lil more patience, as you participate more you will understand we are trying to convey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Damn.. How I wish my Gypsy was not grounded and I had it with me there.
=================
Just crawl up to the edge of the slush, gain steady momentum from there and once your front tyres are out of the pit/base of incline, just gun it up.
Let me quote old man, Spidey will run if you stop fingering it!

And yes thats what i had in mind, but in CJ3B i might have started gaining momentum or maintained some while approaching to compensate for the puny tyres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
You will crash into the wall
You will lose sight from the windscreen
You will have no control over the vehicle as it jumps up the embankment
===============
From experience and breaking parts. Everyone including you should have this experience...who are we to stop you
Wise words remember it, it will save you some pain and money.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Going by the detailed diagram given by Wolf, I can say traction is the key here. The traction can come from mud tyres or diff-locks or terrain. Without traction, this is a no go. I am purely going by the diagram.
Yup and this why i was abusing the NDMS while sitting perched on the same spot with wide open throttle!!

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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Good statement, RL! It will be only here where 'breaking something on the jeep' is termed as worse than breaking a nose / neck!

He could have tried with lesser pressure. This might have given him better traction.

He said that he got the vehicle just 10 days back. Give him few more OTR's and few more visits to garage to fix broken things, re-look at existing configuration. He will get his "experience".
Yes we dont care for people! and yes air pressure helps UBS and Arka swears by this method for NDMS and i wont dispute them with their experience on these tires.

First and foremost fix the vehicle, rule out all the obvious issues and then just offroad.

2 things i would say requiring immediate attention before anything else:
The silencer pipes/routing
Tires, current ones will definitely bust the diff's in a trail like avalaconda.

EDIT: Star: I kinda followed your method, except for low air pressure, no load inside (still think i should have 2 more people inside) and lil bit of over-speeding. Very honestly i had very innocent people giving me all sorts of instructions, soooooooo

Last edited by Jaggu : 26th May 2010 at 21:58.
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:58   #99
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
EDIT: Star: I kinda followed your method, except for low air pressure, no load inside (still think i should have 2 more people inside) and lil bit of over-speeding. Very honestly i had very innocent people giving me all sorts of instructions, soooooooo
I can understand how innocent fella you were when you were following honestly all sorts of instructions from the very innocent people around you
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Old 26th May 2010, 22:22   #100
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I can understand how innocent fella you were when you were following honestly all sorts of instructions from the very innocent people around you
Thank you sirji for having faith in my innocence. I will return the snorkel from your jeep, that is if i manage to find it @ Raju's
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Old 26th May 2010, 22:30   #101
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Run up is not bad, i have already posted and yes please have a lil more patience, as you participate more you will understand we are trying to convey.
Hey, I perfectly understand and appreciate all your opinions in the rightest of intent. Dont know if you guys feel I am opposing your views, none of my posts convey that Im hoping. By reasoning existing concepts and rhetoric ways fresh ideas and thoughts flow...thats when learning takes place which is priceless. I have learned this way all the way- clocking national timing twice isnt easy you see


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Yes we dont care for people!
Good to know. I do about the ones who do.

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First and foremost fix the vehicle, rule out all the obvious issues and then just offroad.

2 things i would say requiring immediate attention before anything else:
The silencer pipes/routing
Tires, current ones will definitely bust the diff's in a trail like avalaconda.
D
Yup, on it already. Suggestions on tyres now please??!! Something between AT & MT

AND, when are we heading to avalaconda????

Last edited by The Wolf : 26th May 2010 at 22:36.
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Old 26th May 2010, 22:46   #102
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This will be perfect for your jeep M8060 Trepador Not perfect for onroad but the right compromise.
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Old 27th May 2010, 10:25   #103
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I said lesser that doesn't mean crawl. I say this because i know my vehicle well, knows its capabilities to around 70%, so if i had saved the energy by reducing the violent jump/rebound etc, this lighter vehicle would stand a better chance to climb up. I think 50% of momentum was killed with the violent hit. So if i had reduced the momentum a lil the wastage would have been better handled, without undue effect on the exit momentum.

Did you notice how Venki and Sundeep were climbing the pit at the second spot, where long wheel base and heavier vehicles took a very different approach? So different vehicle, different approach.

Again if i had better grip/flotation with either a better tire or lower air pressure, i feel i would have had better chance.
Hi Jaggu,

For the remaining 30%

Did you try it with 1st Low and a very Short Run up, 2 vehicle lengths from the "Pit" and crawled in and use the 2600 rpm more judiciously by aggressively pumping the throttle?

Momentum is Kinetic Energy, it can even be achieved at single digit speeds.

Among all the vehicles present the Petrol CJ3B has the best chances in a short run up and explosive power delivery. Climbs are what the JEEPs were made for.

A few tricks like throttle modulation and Airing down the tires will go a long way, along with Aggressive-ness, you need Innovative-ness.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 27th May 2010, 10:28   #104
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Did you try it with 1st Low and a very Short Run up, 2 vehicle lengths from the "Pit" and crawled in and use the 2600 rpm more judiciously by aggressively pumping the throttle?....A few tricks like throttle modulation and Airing down the tires will go a long way
This does sound like the best way to have done it diluting the harsh bump you would encounter on a longer higher speed runup. Also hitting the bump at a slight angle so that both front wheels don't encounter the hurdle at the same time?

Last edited by DKG : 27th May 2010 at 10:29.
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Old 27th May 2010, 10:52   #105
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This does sound like the best way to have done it diluting the harsh bump you would encounter on a longer higher speed runup. Also hitting the bump at a slight angle so that both front wheels don't encounter the hurdle at the same time?
Hi DKG,

I have done a few OTRs with UBS on my Petrol CJ3B and many of his Petrol SWB JEEPs.

One thing I learned from him is controlled aggression, this helps in the long run as the vehicle is preserved for the next obstacles.

One challenge is if any one can beat UBS in a petrol CJ3B with 7.00X16 NDMS on Palar, I remember in 2006, no one could catch up with him on the flat stretches in Scorpio Ravi's Ex-Air Force CJ3B, which had fueling issues and was fed from a Jerry can tied to the windscreen in 4WD.

Regards,

Arka
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