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Old 5th July 2010, 09:27   #151
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Originally Posted by mohan View Post
Gypsy,Jeep and a Gurkha couldn't make it, the Scorpio could ,in the 1st attempt, 4H 1st.
The driver was Sudesh who has many a desert Safaris to his credit in Dubai.

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Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
Well this was the climb which humbled everything, from DKG R1 tires to Khans gypsy, MT tire or no tire. What this place needed was power and nothing else.

A day before I had tried everything up my sleeve to go up the hill but could not and even G 90 did not helped.

Scorpio went up in 1st high, and it had normal bridgestone HT tires. Guess POWER is what Gurkha is screaming!
I & jaggu tried couple of times with my Gypsy but went till only 2/3rd of the climb. DKG, with petrol CJ3b + tractor tyres also managed till 2/3rd of the climb. Rest all could not even come up to 1/4th - 1/2 of the climb.

I did not see the Scorpio climb that day (is this video of the same day??) but yes, this climb did require some raw power -- if it is wet/slippery like on the trail day. If it is dry, then it is like sleep & drive up.

EDIT: Just saw these pictures of the same climb.

EXAMM Report Card-dsc01532.jpg

EXAMM Report Card-dsc01537.jpg

Last edited by khan_sultan : 5th July 2010 at 11:10.
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Old 5th July 2010, 13:00   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohan View Post
Gypsy,Jeep and a Gurkha couldn't make it, the Scorpio could ,in the 1st attempt, 4H 1st.
The driver was Sudesh who has many a desert Safaris to his credit in Dubai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
Well this was the climb which humbled everything, from DKG R1 tires to Khans gypsy, MT tire or no tire. What this place needed was power and nothing else.

A day before I had tried everything up my sleeve to go up the hill but could not and even G 90 did not helped.

Scorpio went up in 1st high, and it had normal bridgestone HT tires. Guess POWER is what Gurkha is screaming!

Hi Dr. Mohan & Rahul,

Considering the Scorpio's weight a CJ3B (55-70Bhp/Tonne), MM540 (45-58Bhp/Tonne) and the MPFI Gypsy is most powerful (80Bhp per tonne).

Scorpio is 110Bhp-120Bhp for 1980Kgs = 55-60Bhp/Tonne.

But there are TWO advantages which the scorpio has, any guesses?

I think the Driver's experience and Skill, it what took the scorpio up that slope.

It was an interesting obstacle, which all the Chennai JEEPers missed.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 5th July 2010 at 13:03.
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Old 5th July 2010, 13:07   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Scorpio is 110Bhp-120Bhp for 1980Kgs = 55-60Bhp/Tonne.

But there are TWO advantages which the scorpio has, any guesses?

Arka
Wild guess: A lot better acceleration from the start-line and a more free-rev range to make the climb?

A wilder guess: AC.
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Old 5th July 2010, 13:28   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Wild guess:
A wilder guess: AC.


I think there is a better explanation to this one. Theoretically, steep hill climbs require better bite at the rear wheels coz the front ones are mostly floating (not to forget the engine weight to help FW traction). This can only happen 1. when the rear tire tread pattern is exceptionally well in lugging the payload without slippage or 2. the weight at the rear end of the vehicle is enough to plough the tires deeper into the climb surface with each trough cycle during flotation resulting in additional traction. In this case the additional weight the scorpio possesses at the rear end coupled with decent tire quality plus the additional rpms at the wheel would have eased the pressure on the driver resulting in a fairly easy looking climb. I wouldnt take the credit off the driver too, it wouldve taken some mathamatical approach to make it through this one.

None of the other jeeps or gypsies are as heavy at the rear as much as the beefy scorpio + lack of that few extra rpms, that should tell some tale.

Lastly, if one observes, it is clear that the scorpio fishtailed towards the end, clearly meaning that the tires are losing traction but not completely (coz of the additional weight) as loss of complete traction would mean slipping in straight line followed by complete loss of momentum and finally the backward drafting. Just my 2 cents...

p.s: what tires on the scorpio?

Last edited by The Wolf : 5th July 2010 at 13:43.
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Old 5th July 2010, 14:44   #155
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I guess there was one more reason, the slush or digged up Mud at the start of the climb was not there. Thus not breaking scorpio's momentum!
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Old 5th July 2010, 14:48   #156
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Scorpio has got the maximum speed in 4wd h in 1st gear than jeeps/gypsys and the driver was able to handle him that speed.
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Old 5th July 2010, 17:03   #157
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My turn, was not there ,ok but a wild guess
1) Good startup speed , sheer momentum +good suspension(helped for good control) = carried it forwered
2) Correct tyre pressure ( in reference to weight, terrain, trade pattern )
3) an experianced driver , who knows the machine & job better , good nerves to hold on
Third is most important.
Yours sudarshan
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Old 5th July 2010, 17:09   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post


I think there is a better explanation to this one. Theoretically, steep hill climbs require better bite at the rear wheels coz the front ones are mostly floating (not to forget the engine weight to help FW traction). This can only happen 1. when the rear tire tread pattern is exceptionally well in lugging the payload without slippage or 2. the weight at the rear end of the vehicle is enough to plough the tires deeper into the climb surface with each trough cycle during flotation resulting in additional traction. In this case the additional weight the scorpio possesses at the rear end coupled with decent tire quality plus the additional rpms at the wheel would have eased the pressure on the driver resulting in a fairly easy looking climb. I wouldnt take the credit off the driver too, it wouldve taken some mathamatical approach to make it through this one.

None of the other jeeps or gypsies are as heavy at the rear as much as the beefy scorpio + lack of that few extra rpms, that should tell some tale.

Lastly, if one observes, it is clear that the scorpio fishtailed towards the end, clearly meaning that the tires are losing traction but not completely (coz of the additional weight) as loss of complete traction would mean slipping in straight line followed by complete loss of momentum and finally the backward drafting. Just my 2 cents...

p.s: what tires on the scorpio?
I dont buy this argument. The Scorpio tyres were probably some version of road-terrain.

Arka, now dont tell me IFS got the Scorpio up
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Old 5th July 2010, 17:25   #159
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I dont buy this argument.
No problem...i'l wait for another customer

Jokes apart, hey do you know what gear the scorpio made this climb in? Im guessing he didnt use the Low ratio...
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Old 5th July 2010, 17:49   #160
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No problem...i'l wait for another customer

Jokes apart, hey do you know what gear the scorpio made this climb in? Im guessing he didnt use the Low ratio...
Read up on the previous posts man - 1st gear - 4WD-H. High-revving engine and quick off the throttle is really what did it. Engine power at its meanest.
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Old 5th July 2010, 18:00   #161
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The driver also had another advantage,he was the first one to try it ,early morning ,slush at the start was less,it had rained last night but was sunny in the morning and the grip on the upclimb was better than what it was after many vehicles tried and after it rained .
Nevertheless the Gurkha also tried,but persistently failed ,as it couldnt even reach half the climb; simply no power..
BTW the Scorpio was wearing Bridgestone A/T and went up in 4H 1st.

Last edited by mohan : 5th July 2010 at 18:01.
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Old 5th July 2010, 18:08   #162
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^^ rev-ability? Flat torque curve across a wide RPM Range?
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Old 5th July 2010, 18:14   #163
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Some nice discussion & theories going on here but unless the scorpio tried it in similar conditions as the jeeps/Gypsy's (or jeeps/gypsy's tried along with the Scorpio) we can just speculate -- but this is in no way taking anythign away from the skills of the scorpio driver & the power of that machine.

One more data point: even this small ditch was literally impossible when it was wet & slippery that afternoon. IIRC, only DKG's CJ3b & my Gypsy were able to do it at that time -- don't know if other vehicles tried it later in the day.

EXAMM Report Card-dsc01509.jpg

If it were dry, almost all vehicles would have just walked over it.
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Old 5th July 2010, 18:27   #164
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But there are TWO advantages which the scorpio has, any guesses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohan View Post
The driver also had another advantage,he was the first one to try it ,early morning ,slush at the start was less,it had rained last night but was sunny in the morning and the grip on the upclimb was better than what it was after many vehicles tried and after it rained .
Nevertheless the Gurkha also tried,but persistently failed ,as it couldnt even reach half the climb; simply no power..
BTW the Scorpio was wearing Bridgestone A/T and went up in 4H 1st.
Hi Doc.Mohan,

Considering the Scorpio's weight and AT Tyres, lack of LSD or Lockers, I think his having the first go, even's the odds.

I think the Scorpio has 2 Advantages, which is not noticed.

i) Additional Weight = Traction
ii) Longer Wheel Base, more stable on a climb, and will be spending lesser time traversing the climb.

Look at it like 2 persons equally fit, one 5ft Tall another 6 ft Tall, jumping up to catch a Bar which is 8ft up, who has an advantage? finds it easier? uses lesser input?

Please pass on my compliments to Sudesh.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 5th July 2010 at 18:31.
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Old 5th July 2010, 20:25   #165
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are we missing something here
my gypsy always does this climb and quite easily in horrible conditions
the other sunday,
after my range rovers struggled to climb cause of fuel issues and spoilt the entire track upwards
the gypsy did it in one go in 1st low, cause of sheer power i should add hitting the revv limiter
then the automatic scorpio tried and managed it again in one go with a little spinning of the tyres(mud terrain)
then after three tries the land rover managed
now at this point the track was really bad and it was pouring cats and dogs
gypsy went again and managed it without a fuss in 1st high this time.
but ya noticed the scorpio did have some kind of advantage, so maybe arkas right

also during the recce is mohan remembers the gypsy went up with loads of ease when the gurkha did not
guess power talks
need arjuns dcm 550 here

regards
allan
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