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Old 19th August 2010, 12:34   #16
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that briefing was a joke gs,
total waste of time
at least it seems now,
now of what was said at the briefing was followed by roy himself and the o team

rather then jaggu and all not being there at the briefing, it would have been more useful if the o team would be present and all ears at the briefing then such goof ups would not happen
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Old 19th August 2010, 15:58   #17
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.. and I thought this was a thread for suggesting how better can TPC get next year. No ?
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Old 19th August 2010, 16:10   #18
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Thanks neoranjit for pointing out. have moved the posts to the event thread

NOTE:
Please use this thread to only post ideas/suggestions on how to make next years TPC a better event.

Any 2010 specific stuff should be discussed in the event report thread itself.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...report-10.html (TPC2010 -Event Report)

Last edited by khan_sultan : 19th August 2010 at 16:11.
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Old 19th August 2010, 17:00   #19
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Displaying the day 1 score to the teams at the begging of day 2 for the team to know where they stand.
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Old 19th August 2010, 18:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matchless View Post
Displaying the day 1 score to the teams at the begging of day 2 for the team to know where they stand.
Already covered by yours truly, in his first post on this thread
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Old 20th August 2010, 09:40   #21
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Arka, I am cross posting this from the report thread to highlight a certain aspect:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
...
At 1700hrs there were 3 Blue Teams (3/4 &5) competing on the river bed at SS6 to SS10, while Team Red 2 & Red 4 were Held back after completing SS4. If we had stopped them too, then only 2-3 Team would be in contention.

So to stiffen the competition and give the other first time teams, a good run, we decided to post pone the closing time.

... and to keep as many teams in contention as possible.

....
IMHO, once the competition rules have been laid out and the event has started, I don't think it is fair for the O-Team to try and do all this for making most teams finish etc.

I know you are trying to do your best and all that but from a competitive view point it doesn't sound fair at all. It should be left to it's natural course. If, according to rules, it means that only 2 teams finish and rest 10 get disqualified for certain stages, then so be it.
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Old 20th August 2010, 11:16   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Arka, I am cross posting this from the report thread to highlight a certain aspect:

IMHO, once the competition rules have been laid out and the event has started, I don't think it is fair for the O-Team to try and do all this for making most teams finish etc.

I know you are trying to do your best and all that but from a competitive view point it doesn't sound fair at all. It should be left to it's natural course. If, according to rules, it means that only 2 teams finish and rest 10 get disqualified for certain stages, then so be it.
Hi Shahnawaz,

The Timing and 1700hrs Rule is a basic indication to the Competitors of how much time they can have.

Many other factors come into deciding, the closing time, the primary being how many teams have managed to complete the SS.

TPC is not scored on timing, it is scored on Points Collected at the Special Stages.

The Timing Data is collected along with the No.of Attempts and will only be used as a Tie-Breaker.

How many Team's were penalised for Hitting/Damaging Marker Flags.?

Only Day#2 SS3 Team's Were Penalised for Hitting the Marker Flags.

How Many Teams' were Penalised for un-safe recovery? We have all the unsafe Recovery Attempts recorded.

We know which Rules to Enforce To KEEP the competition Healthy and Fun.

Why have a 2 Day competition where most competitors are out of contention on Day#1.

If they are out of contention, why allow them to continue, if they continue knowing they are not in contention they may lose focus and become a nuisance to other competitors.

Our Take on Rules is that they will be enforced only where there are
i) Safety Considerations
ii) Tie between 2 or more teams.

Next year all these Rules will be given to all the competitors in Printed Booklet.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 20th August 2010, 11:47   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Shahnawaz,

The Timing and 1700hrs Rule is a basic indication to the Competitors of how much time they can have.
Next year, then please ask the person making the briefing to be explicitly clear on this. This year Major roy spent quite a bit of time explaining how you would be stopped if you were even 1 minute over your run time etc etc.

Quote:
Many other factors come into deciding, the closing time, the primary being how many teams have managed to complete the SS.
Sure, just be clear and make them transparent.

Quote:
TPC is not scored on timing, it is scored on Points Collected at the Special Stages.
Yes, but according to briefing by O-Team, you have a certain cut-off time to complete the SS's. So timing does play a role.

Quote:
...

How many Team's were penalised for Hitting/Damaging Marker Flags.?

Only Day#2 SS3 Team's Were Penalised for Hitting the Marker Flags.

How Many Teams' were Penalised for un-safe recovery? We have all the unsafe Recovery Attempts recorded.
That's your problem if you are not following/enforcing rules that you have only stated and communicated.

Quote:
We know which Rules to Enforce To KEEP the competition Healthy and Fun.
Sure, just let the participants know before hand which ones you WILL apply, which MIGHT apply and which ones are Guidelines. Just make it transparent.

Quote:
....If they are out of contention, why allow them to continue, if they continue knowing they are not in contention they may lose focus and become a nuisance to other competitors.
That's just an assumption you have and in a way you are undermining the seriousness of the people taking part in TPC.

Quote:
Our Take on Rules is that they will be enforced only where there are
i) Safety Considerations
ii) Tie between 2 or more teams.
Good you came out in the open with your thoughts. Makes it pretty clear for people thinking of participating next year.
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Old 21st August 2010, 19:23   #24
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Does anyone see merit in the staggered start system I talked about earlier?

BLUE teams - start at SS1...2..3..4..5...6...7...8..9..10 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.

RED teams - start at SS5...6...7...8...9...10...1...2...3...4 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.

This way everyone is moving in the same direction through the SSs so no pile-ups anywhere.

If that idea sucks we can setup 12 SSs next year

Day-1 Blue Teams do SS1-6 / RED Teams do SS7-12 followed by Individual SS
Day-2 Blue Teams do SS7-12 / RED Teams do SS1-6 followed by Technical events

We will finish earlier on each day as well and there won't be any pile-ups. Since we are separating the teams, we can also do two completely different areas of the Palar basin and meet up at a central point somewhere at the end of the day's proceedings.

The way I see it, the 6 SSs will be completed by 2:00pm. The drive to meeting point can take up to 1 hour. Individual SS will be the meeting point and individuals can attack this as they arrive. This can go on from 3:00 - 6:00pm and then we head back to camp for scores and dinner.

??
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Old 21st August 2010, 19:52   #25
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Hi Guys

Have been going through this thread.

I have never participated in an competitive offroad event,but have a little experience with staging a offroad event.

Pulling off the AKC was quite a task,and i am sure the TPC must be quite a challenge to pull off.

I have also participated in a few Drag Races and know the feeling when things are not transparent.

All competitive Events must have Rules and People to enforce the rules to the T.

These rules once laid out cannot be changed and must be totally transparent at all times.

The minute you have one official saying one thing and another saying something else you are in trouble.

No matter what, for very good reason you will then have very unhappy particpants.

Keep things simple guys.

Last edited by motocamp : 21st August 2010 at 19:54.
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Old 21st August 2010, 19:58   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motocamp View Post
These rules once laid out cannot be changed and must be totally transparent at all times.

The minute you have one official saying one thing and another saying something else you are in trouble.

No matter what, for very good reason you will then have very unhappy particpants.
Sir,

The rules ARE never changed. Some people / teams missed the main briefing - misunderstood certain points and are trying to confuse others.

Last edited by headers : 21st August 2010 at 20:03.
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Old 23rd August 2010, 13:35   #27
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I do not have much idea about offroading events, but even then I can see fundamental flaws with the way scoring takes place.
From what I understand, the event happens over a number of days, and there are lot of "SS", which I presume stands for Special Stage.
Now, such events will always have a danger of running out of time, and some stages cannot be completed by all teams due to factors not because of the teams.
So some stages are removed, and this leads to lot of anger in the people who scored well in those stages.
An alternative to such scoring mechanism is this
1. Have a number of stages, which is greater than the number of stages required. For example you can have total of 20 stages and 15 scoring stages
2. After event is over, every team's best 15 stages count.
3. Some stages may be tough with nobody scoring high. So instead of absolute scores, the absolute scores should be normalized in percentile. Various formulae are available on the internet to convert stand alone scores to percentile.

In a simplistic model, the team finishing last will get 0 points, and team finishing first will get 100 points for a stage, and teams in between, any normalized score.

This will ensure that no stage need be removed. If 15 our 20 stages completed by all teams(except for breakdowns which are team responsibility) is too much, then there can be 25 stages, and best 15 out of 25 can be taken.

Remember, its very important to follow percentile model than absolute scores. This ensures that the best team to do the most difficult stages gets 100 points.
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Old 23rd August 2010, 22:15   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Does anyone see merit in the staggered start system I talked about earlier?

BLUE teams - start at SS1...2..3..4..5...6...7...8..9..10 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.

RED teams - start at SS5...6...7...8...9...10...1...2...3...4 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.
That's a good idea. Even UBS mentioned something akin to a circular start being thought of for next year.
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Old 24th August 2010, 11:00   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Sir,

The rules ARE never changed. Some people / teams missed the main briefing - misunderstood certain points and are trying to confuse others.
One last time, where in the briefing was the cancellation model explained? Please refrain from misleading others!

And please stick to suggestions instead of this chit chat, there is another thread for the same.
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Old 24th August 2010, 14:00   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Does anyone see merit in the staggered start system I talked about earlier?

BLUE teams - start at SS1...2..3..4..5...6...7...8..9..10 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.

RED teams - start at SS5...6...7...8...9...10...1...2...3...4 and drive back to SS1 for Individual SS / Technical event.

This way everyone is moving in the same direction through the SSs so no pile-ups anywhere.

If that idea sucks we can setup 12 SSs next year

Day-1 Blue Teams do SS1-6 / RED Teams do SS7-12 followed by Individual SS
Day-2 Blue Teams do SS7-12 / RED Teams do SS1-6 followed by Technical events

We will finish earlier on each day as well and there won't be any pile-ups. Since we are separating the teams, we can also do two completely different areas of the Palar basin and meet up at a central point somewhere at the end of the day's proceedings.

The way I see it, the 6 SSs will be completed by 2:00pm. The drive to meeting point can take up to 1 hour. Individual SS will be the meeting point and individuals can attack this as they arrive. This can go on from 3:00 - 6:00pm and then we head back to camp for scores and dinner.

??
GSF,

Good idea really and it is done in some of the similar events elsewhere in the world

This is usually what is done on a Golf Course for a Tournament. Its reffered to as a Shotgun Start. All teams start playing their respective fairways and holes (here the SS) at a single predetermined time and then moves on. For the "un-initiated" there are 18 holes to be completed on a single round of golf usually in 4 hours max. The team will have a preset/reasonable time to complete the hole an move on (also extra like five minutes max to search for any lost balls in golf) with penalty if the team/player is unable to complete with in the time.

Another advantage is that all teams will get a shot at one set of SS when that set of SS is still unspoiled by the attacks/approaches from other temas. Kind of evens the field little bit.

Best Regards & Drive/Ride safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 24th August 2010 at 14:09.
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