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Old 24th January 2006, 19:13   #1
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Question Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

A question for GTO and all Mahindra CJ & CL 340 owners...

Was looking at the possibility of getting ARB air locker kits that can be fitted on the Classic.

I needed to know the type of differential (front and rear) for which the kits are to be ordered... I think rear is Dana 44... and the front is 30... 33 ?

Are the differentials the same for CJ & CL 340 ?

Has anyone tried this before ?
Any comments, suggestions, advice, pointers....

Check this is the link for more information on ARB Air Lockers... http://www.arbusa.com/air_locker_loc...ferentials.htm
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Old 24th January 2006, 21:02   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon

I needed to know the type of differential (front and rear) for which the kits are to be ordered... I think rear is Dana 44... and the front is 30... 33 ?

Are the differentials the same for CJ & CL 340 ?

Has anyone tried this before ?
Any comments, suggestions, advice, pointers....
As you invited comments, suggestions, advice, pointers....
Here's my two-bits worth.

The rear is definitely a Dana 44. The front is a Dana 27, I think. No reason why it couldn't be just another Dana 44, except that the MM540DP 4x4, uses the same mechanicals as an early 'sixties Jeep CJ-5. (The kind used in the Howard Hawks 1962 movie "Hatari!" starring John Wayne, Hardy Krüger, Elsa Martinelli, Red Buttons).

I'd fitted my Mahindra MM540DP4wd with Warn lockable free-wheeling hubs. That was eons ago.

The petrol Jeeps had 4.27:1 differentials.
The MM540 4wd had 4:88:1 differentials
and the longer wheelbase Commanders have 5:38:1 differentials.

Hope this helps.
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Old 26th January 2006, 16:44   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
As you invited comments, suggestions, advice, pointers....
Here's my two-bits worth.

The rear is definitely a Dana 44. The front is a Dana 27, I think. No reason why it couldn't be just another Dana 44, except that the MM540DP 4x4, uses the same mechanicals as an early 'sixties Jeep CJ-5. (The kind used in the Howard Hawks 1962 movie "Hatari!" starring John Wayne, Hardy Krüger, Elsa Martinelli, Red Buttons).

I'd fitted my Mahindra MM540DP4wd with Warn lockable free-wheeling hubs. That was eons ago.

The petrol Jeeps had 4.27:1 differentials.
The MM540 4wd had 4:88:1 differentials
and the longer wheelbase Commanders have 5:38:1 differentials.

Hope this helps.
Thanks ram!

I assume that M&M would have kept the differentials on the 340, the same as that on the 540... Unless anyone knows otherwise.

Btw, I'm looking at picking up the kit for Air Operated Locking Differential from ARB (not free-wheeling hubs). Its expensive, but does have a lot of benifits over the standard lockers.
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Old 27th January 2006, 18:23   #4
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Hello JEEPers,
I would like to clarify a few points as far as M&M JEEPs go
1- All MM JEEPs have a DANA 44
2- MM540/550 DP/XD has mechanicals similar to the CJ7
3- The differential Ratios are as follows
i- Petrol CJ3B & CJ4 is 43/8 or 5.38 :1 same for Commander 650
ii- Diesel B275 International/MD2350 is 47/11 or 4.27:1
iii- Diesel Pugeot XD4.9P(2112cc) & XD3PB(2498cc) is 44/9 or 4.88:1

The 47/11 was used in American CJ3Bs and CJ5s.

The ARB used to make a kit for MM Jeeps with 19 spline axles.

Keepin' Jeepin'

Arka

1985 Petrol CJ3B-4 (ex-Airforce)
1996 MM540XD
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Old 6th May 2010, 15:22   #5
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Hi Guys.. so the MM540 front diff is D27 with 19spline axles and the rear is a D44 27spline axles.. Is this similar to American CJ7 or CJ6
Hope to receive the answers which will help me a lot in choosing the right lockers + R&P higher ratios to use bigger tires..

Thanks.
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Old 6th May 2010, 20:51   #6
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Originally Posted by vikid View Post
Hi Guys.. so the MM540 front diff is D27 with 19spline axles and the rear is a D44 27spline axles.. Is this similar to American CJ7 or CJ6
Thanks.
The Willys M38A1 produced from 1952-1957 first introduced the round fender which still persists in today's Mahindras. It had an 81-inch wheelbase like the CJ-3B.

However the military MD-M38A1 had a stronger chassis than the CJ-5 and reversed front spring shackles. It had a 24 volt electrical system. Over a lakh were produced of which 80% remained in the USA.

By contrast only about 6,500 four-cylinder Willys MD-M170s were produced from 1953 to 1963.
The MD-M170 had a 101-inch wheelbase.
The right-hand-side door opening was much larger than the left-hand-side door opening, which was the same as on the M38A1.

The doorless Willys CJ-5 and Willys CJ-6 were the civilian versions of the Korean War MDM38A1 and MD-M170. So the CJ-6 had a 101-inch wheelbase, unlike the Mahindra MM540/550 which has a 94.5-inch wheelbase.

Suffice it to say that no CJ-6 was produced after 1971 when Willys was sold to American Motor Corp. and Jeeps had only 6-cylinder and V8 engines. To accommodate the new engines the fenders and hood were stretched 5 inches in 1972 and the wheelbase was stretched 3 more inches.

So CJ-5s and other Jeeps made after 1971 are much more powerful and durable beasts than the humble Mahindra MM540, which is stuck to the pre-1970 Willys CJ-5 design.

The Windshield of a real soft-top Jeep (every single one of them from 1943 to 2010) can be folded without dismantling the wipers. However Mahindra made wipers more car-like by mounting the motor in the cowl and requiring the wipers to be removed before folding the windshield.

Nothing from the CJ-7 will fit the MM540
The CJ-7 was produced from 1976 to 1986. It had a chain-drive transfer case, could be had with Quadra-Trac permanent four-wheel-drive and automatic transmission.

Everything about the CJ-7 is different from the Mahindra MM540. No part will fit except the fender mounted reflectors and the bonnet clamps.

Ram
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Old 30th September 2010, 08:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
The Willys M38A1 produced from 1952-1957 first introduced the round fender which still persists in today's Mahindras. It had an 81-inch wheelbase like the CJ-3B.

However the military MD-M38A1 had a stronger chassis than the CJ-5 and reversed front spring shackles. It had a 24 volt electrical system. Over a lakh were produced of which 80% remained in the USA.
Friends:

Encountered a very interesting video.

A group of Canadian Army engineers, eight to be exact drive up in a 1952-1957 Willys MD-M38A1 (military version) of Willys CJ-5 Jeep. And in a matter of 1 minute and 29 seconds, disassemble it with only hand tools. No power tools.
Then in a matter of 1 minute and 43 seconds they reassemble it and drive away.

Like a toy. Enjoy!!

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Old 1st October 2010, 00:04   #8
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Thanks Ram Sir for sharing.

I think there is a Guinness record for this fete too. Or was it Ripleys'.?
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Old 1st October 2010, 12:40   #9
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Thanks Ram Sir for sharing.
I think there is a Guinness record for this fete too. Or was it Ripleys'.?
You're very welcome SirAlec.

Back in early 1988, a very senior gentleman in the Jeeps business told me the following:

In the early days, M&M imported Willys Jeeps -- CJ-2As, CJ-3As and CJ-3Bs directly from Toledo, Ohio in wooden packing crates. These consignments were unloaded from the ship that brought them at Bombay Dockyard.

They were assembled right on the Bombay docks, fueled up from jerry cans and driven away to the showroom.

The good gentleman educated me that, Willys-Overland always designed these little 4x4 trucks, to be disassembled and reassembled in a very short time. Shipping them to a foreign land in disassembled form and reassembling them on the field, was a key part of the design intention.

Ram
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Old 1st October 2010, 13:04   #10
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Crated army surplus Willys Jeeps sold in USA
In 1946, Willys offered the first CJ (Civilian Jeep) as the CJ2A. It could go anywhere & do anything -- It was a tractor, it was a truck, it was a power plant, it was a wagon.

Jeeps were always shipped from the factory partially “knocked down” so that more could fit on a ship, and military orders could be fulfilled quicker.

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Old 29th December 2010, 23:49   #11
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Exclamation Re: Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hello JEEPers,
I would like to clarify a few points as far as M&M JEEPs go
1- All MM JEEPs have a DANA 44
2- MM540/550 DP/XD has mechanicals similar to the CJ7
3- The differential Ratios are as follows
i- Petrol CJ3B & CJ4 is 43/8 or 5.38 :1 same for Commander 650
ii- Diesel B275 International/MD2350 is 47/11 or 4.27:1
iii- Diesel Pugeot XD4.9P(2112cc) & XD3PB(2498cc) is 44/9 or 4.88:1

Hope yo'all wont mind if I revive this thread.

I was thinking to upgrade my mm540 with a Diff lock and was looking at commercially available lockers to fit Dana 44 - 19 spline axle config here in USA. I didn't get any suitable hit.

ARB does come for Dana 44 however for 33 spline axles. Is this something we can buy and engineer a bit to fit MM540's?

Your ideas and thoughts please.

Thanks,
SD
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Old 30th December 2010, 10:31   #12
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Default Re: Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
Hope yo'all wont mind if I revive this thread.

I was thinking to upgrade my mm540 with a Diff lock and was looking at commercially available lockers to fit Dana 44 - 19 spline axle config here in USA. I didn't get any suitable hit.

ARB does come for Dana 44 however for 33 spline axles. Is this something we can buy and engineer a bit to fit MM540's?

Your ideas and thoughts please.

Thanks,
SD
Hi SD,

ARB RD18 or RD19 or RD45.

You can get a ARB 30/33 Spline and make custom Rear Axle, in INDIA.

Front Axle is difficult.

Or get Custom Axles from USA. (Superior Axles yes that's a brand)

If you want Lockers (Auto-Lockers) Lock-Right Part.No. 2413.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th December 2010, 12:02   #13
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Default Re: Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

Wouldn't the detroit locker be the best bet?
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Old 30th December 2010, 13:39   #14
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Default Re: Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Wouldn't the detroit locker be the best bet?
Hi Venky,

Detroit Locker Part No. 187SL12A.

Advantages.
1) Its a full carrier replacement, more strength.

2) Better Lock-Unlock Characteristics.

Disadvantages
1) More moving parts and the coupler is the weak link, has opposing female and male splines.

2) Price - 1 Detroit = 2 Lock-Right.

3) Weight - from the shipping point of view a Detroit is 21lbs and Lock-Right is 4lbs.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th December 2010, 23:31   #15
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Default Re: Diff Lock for the Mahindra Classic

Arka, You had mentioned "front axle is difficult" what exactly did you mean? I hope you didn't mean the retrofit of locker into Front differential is difficult .

Also, are the part numbers same for both front and rear?

Seems ARB 18, 19 are discontinued and hard to come by. ARB 33 seems to be a viable option if fabrication of axles are easy!

Interstingly, Eaton India is manufacturing the domestic version of Detroit Locker known as Mlocker.



Any idea on M Locker price?

Detroit Lockers in US are priced at ~ $630.00 EA.

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Lock Right 2413: Priced at around $350.00 EA, not bad. However, looks like its a full time device working all the time even during regular on road driving. I was wondering about the life span of the gears in the locker due to repeat engage disengage of gears. They also don't appear deep enough .

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Lock Right Locker Operation: The POWERTRAX LOCK-RIGHT consists of two Drivers, two Couplers, and two Spacers. Power is transferred to the wheels through intermeshing teeth in such a way that one wheel cannot be powered ahead of the other. When entering a turn, where the outside wheel needs to travel faster than the inside wheel, the teeth driving the outside wheel disengage. The LOCK-RIGHT Locker is quieter than competing locking differentials, but nonetheless, as the vehicle continues through the turn, the teeth repeatedly engage and disengage producing a ratcheting sound.

When powering straight ahead, the cross-shaft engages the saddles in the drivers at an angle such that, in addition to rotating the drivers, forces the teeth of the drivers into engagement with the teeth of the respective couplers. The harder the driving torque, the stronger the tooth engagement. When entering a turn, the driver on the outside of the turn advances ahead of the cross shaft so there is no torque or outward force imposed on this driver. The opposing driver remains fully engaged delivering engine power. After about 1° of rotation, the pins in the driver bottom out in the holes of the opposing driver, so it is now restrained from further rotation. Because the coupler is splined to the axle, it continues to rotate ahead of the driver. The positive angle on the coupler and driver teeth then enables the driver to disengage from the coupler with 1/2° of additional rotation. As the vehicle continues through the turn, the driver repeatedly engages and disengages from the coupler, making the aforementioned ratcheting sound. The springs between the two drivers ensure that the driver will reengage with the coupler when the vehicle exits the turn. The cross-shaft contacting the saddles provides the final engagement force, not the springs. In summary, the LOCK-RIGHT Locker offers full wheel differentiation combined with maximum traction.
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