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Old 21st October 2011, 20:22   #1
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Default Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Hello BHPians,

It's been a while now, I hope things are good with the festive mood everywhere. I seek a very (seemingly) trivial advice for increasing the intensity of Head Lamps - Fog Lamps of my MG 410W. The visibility at night, even at high-beams is very poor. The following is what I have tried so far:

1. Installed a new battery - Exide Compatible: Lights still dim
2. Cleaned the reflector surfaces, changed bulbs: No effect
3. A local auto-electrician suggested installing some kind of "Relay" (could be a capacitor I suppose) for 450 INR and promised increased intensity. I didn't trust him, so never tried it.

What, in your experiences must I do? And, what's wrong at the first place? I assure that the Battery is in perfect shape and charge.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 21st October 2011, 20:57   #2
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Get yourself new Autopal reflectors, install the relays so you can use 100W/90W Philips Rally bulbs. I am sure you will not have anything to complain about.

(Assumption : the wiring is in good condition, and the bulbs are getting the required volts/current)

PS : the reflector dome is the same size as in Maruti Omni van (old) and the Ambassador car, I guess.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 21st October 2011 at 21:08.
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Old 21st October 2011, 21:11   #3
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Thank you for the advice, I'll certainly try those out. I have a fading doubt though, about the relays. What are they really? And how can a relay possibly increase current (or wattage) of the bulb? I have an electrical engineering background and hence the curiosity, please don't mind.

Thanks again.
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Old 21st October 2011, 21:19   #4
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
...
(Assumption : the wiring is in good condition, and the bulbs are getting the required volts/current)

PS : the reflector dome is the same size as in Maruti Omni van (old) and the Ambassador car, I guess.
There might be a problem with the combination switch earthing.

Gypsy uses 7 inch headlamps. Jeeps, 1100Ds, Bullets etc. Very common at one time.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 22nd October 2011, 06:22   #5
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Take the complete unit out & chek it directly with the battery , using the 3 wires ( 1 for each beam & 1 for earthing )

If you see a difference there is surely something wrong with the wiring .,

Also, Can you post the picture of the connector (to the bulb) ?

with the old 700 type connectors there is hardly anything to go wrong ,but with the newer type ( Pin type ) the problem comes when the wires are not connected properly wrt polarity (particularly with the earthing ) the headlight seems to be dim

fitting a headlight relay is a good Idea as it reduces the load on the beam selector switch

Sudarshan

P.S. will try to post pics of the relay & holder ( bulb ) for better understanding .
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Old 22nd October 2011, 19:47   #6
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by atheistrical View Post
Thank you for the advice, I'll certainly try those out. I have a fading doubt though, about the relays. What are they really? And how can a relay possibly increase current (or wattage) of the bulb? I have an electrical engineering background and hence the curiosity, please don't mind.

Thanks again.
If the stock wiring for head lamps is designed for lower power, the wiring will overheat when higher power bulbs are used. Please note that the whole circuit
. wires to the switch
. switch
. wires from switch to the bulbs
must have enough rating to deliver full power. Else if there is loss any where in the circuit, your bulbs will be dimmer.

Here is where the relay comes in. Just like horn relay, a light relay will not stress the existing wiring with excess current. Instead the existing circuit will be used to power the relay. The main current will have a shorter and thicker path - Battery, Relay, Bulbs.

Apart from power, the reflector has to be upto the specifications. In an non-sealed beam head light, the reflector deteriorates with time (dust, humidity age). Even the front glass elements in the older "non clear glass" become less efficient.

So to increase the light of your head lights
. Get a light relay powerful enough to run the lights
. Get heavy duty wires for the relay secondary circuit
. Clean the reflector/front glass. Best to replace with new if they are more than five years old.

When I had an Ambassador, I faced the same problems, and finally installed a relay and new "Sealed Beams". All problem solved.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 19:57   #7
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Accept my gratitude for the crystal clear explanation (for the relay) and for the suggestions. I am excited to try those checks myself. I'll also get the wires to the headlamps replaced with appropriate gauge wires, before I venture into installing those high wattage bulbs.

Just because we are BHPians, or we ought to try things ourselves, is it possible to suggest the relay setup circuit diagram so that I could try my hands on it myself, for satisfaction and learning both.

I shall post pictures of the MODs in a week's time since I haven't been driving it recently.

Thanks again!
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Old 23rd October 2011, 00:42   #8
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
Get yourself new Autopal reflectors, install the relays so you can use 100W/90W Philips Rally bulbs. I am sure you will not have anything to complain about.

(Assumption : the wiring is in good condition, and the bulbs are getting the required volts/current)

PS : the reflector dome is the same size as in Maruti Omni van (old) and the Ambassador car, I guess.

Autopal headlamps only come in p45t. I got one only to find out belatedly after the mechanic had removed the stock headlamp and tried to fit in the bulb. then I went back to JC road and the shopkeeper flatly refused to try and procure another Autopal saying they all come in p45t only. But the old gypsy may not have p43t bulbs so you may be good to go.

--Ragul
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Old 23rd October 2011, 15:57   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy


When I had an Ambassador, I faced the same problems, and finally installed a relay and new "Sealed Beams". All problem solved.

I am searching for sealed beam ones. 90/110 or higher wattage.
Mind to share the source?
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Old 23rd October 2011, 18:17   #10
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by atheistrical View Post
Just because we are BHPians, or we ought to try things ourselves, is it possible to suggest the relay setup circuit diagram so that I could try my hands on it myself, for satisfaction and learning both.
Thanks again!
The installation is fairly simple, the relay normally, has three terminals
a) Power Input
b) Power Output
c) Relay/Trigger input

You have to connect the battery to Power input, Headlamps to Power output and the original wires going to the headlamps to the trigger. Just check the relay you buy for
. Current rating of the contacts. Should be 10A for 2x60W, 20A for 2x120W bulbs. The more the better.
. Terminal lables. If they are not clear, ask either the seller or a nearby auto electrician, they will tell you how to connect.
Normally there is no earth terminal, so you have to connect the relay to bare metal. So find a bolt or a hole in the body. Clean it with sandpaper and bolt the relay. To prevent rust at a later stage, paint the bolt (after verifying that the relay works properly!)

Once you are satisfied, you may want to add more lights. Use another relay with high rating, say 25-30A if you want 4 x 80W lights. This time you have to route one wire (the trigger) from battery to a switch on your panel and then to the relay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
I am searching for sealed beam ones. 90/110 or higher wattage.
Mind to share the source?
Unfortunately I had shifted to M800 in 1991, and since then have not needed any spares worth the name, so I have no idea where the sealed beams will be available. I will inquire from local dealers. You can try the Ambassador dealers. If all fails, try International spare parts dealers they have stocks for all varieties and vintages. Members who have been importing spares for their imports may help you out with source information.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 20:41   #11
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by atheistrical View Post
1. Installed a new battery - Exide Compatible: Lights still dim
Wont help.
Quote:
2. Cleaned the reflector surfaces, changed bulbs: No effect
Reflector cleaning might help, ONLY if they are too dirty.
Quote:
A local auto-electrician suggested installing some kind of "Relay"
Actually, this is the best and proven way to increase the stock lighting.

Road worthy cars usually, come with 55/60 bulbs and associated wiring. For better lighting its, always advisable to switch to 100/130 or 100/90 bulbs with an appropriate relay. You just have to ensure that your stock reflectors can handle the extra heat from the bulbs, if not, upgrade.

btw, 100/90 is the best bulb upgrade on stock reflectors. I'm running those on stock wiring and stock holders on my IKON.

Please research and do the needful.

Quote:
And, what's wrong at the first place?
Check the wiring as many have suggested.
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Old 25th October 2011, 08:34   #12
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Default Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Get a HL relay and rewire the circuit. A faulty earth wire is usually the cause for dim HL.
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Old 30th October 2011, 08:45   #13
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Lightbulb Re: Gypsy 410W - Dim Headlights/Fog Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Autopal headlamps only come in p45t...
Autopal reflectors for the Gypsy do come in the P43T flavour also. I recently bought one for my Gypsy. But there was only one piece, stock should have arrived now, I guess, will be going next weekend to get the second reflector also.
(The older ones had the P45t reflector)
.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 30th October 2011 at 08:48.
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