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Old 2nd January 2012, 14:30   #91
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Rajith and Carrot Eater - thank you for the pictures. In the last photograph above, the plate and the curved pipe are the field fix. The tail pipe mounting hook is held on the plate. In order to have effective strength (section modulus) of this plate in "Z" axis, I would have provided a support to one of the four holes next to the big hole on the bumper. Also, I would prefer to use M10 fasteners instead of M8 at the plate to bumper location but that will call for bumper drawing change, so it will call for PPRF going upto FTR (don't ask what is PPRF / FTR, it will start a Ramayana / Mahabharata), so you please do locally for your own cars. It will take 15 minutes to fabricate and fit. Also reinforce the bumper section into a box at this location with welded support on the long member. Both these actions will prevent bumper and bracket flex, otherwise the hook nut will loosen and fall off. Mud flap is shifted to the front side. Similar bracket must be offered on the LH side also to provide same location for the mud flap on both sides, otherwise rear appearance will look cocky. I hope this does not change the ramp breakover angle or else recertification of CMVR will be required before it goes in production. There should be a shield behind the tailpipe to prevent inadvertent burn to anybody touching it.

Now you know how a product engineer is supposed to think!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
sir,
why cant we weld the new plate directly along the full lenght and width of the over lapping area in the bottom and then reinforce the bumper section into a box at this location with welded support on the long member?.
Rajith
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Old 2nd January 2012, 19:01   #92
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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sir, why cant we weld the new plate directly along the full lenght and width of the over lapping area in the bottom and then reinforce the bumper section into a box at this location with welded support on the long member? Rajith
Dear Rajith - thank you for your perfect question, now we are finally talking. Yes, you can. The correct way to do it is to do some parts planning which even a one vehicle activity requires, buying of correct raw material for one vehicle, converting to finish part for one vehicle, orienting it correctly, for example if a 50*25mm box has to be welded to the rear bumper, should it be done horizontally or vertically (section modulus changes), how much of a weight penalty can the overhang take (remember, the bumper is a "C" section with less radius and quite less material thickness without diamond reinforcements), will it work at life = infinity means no issue at all till EOL (end of life), then actually evaluating the vehicle for performance, NVH attributes and life cycle and if found OK, then going by the final RWUP (Real World Usage Pattern) route to delight the customer. I know that this is a challenging job, this is what excites me immensely and I guess I am lucky because I actually get paid to think like this and implement ideas. By the way, this thought process must also form the base of what "making one Jeep better" as an activity so exciting, isn't it? Otherwise there are numerous establishments working on Jeeps out there! Go ahead and do it, make your mark, Thar as a platform is meant to be used to showcase talent like this. Best of luck! Finally, we are talking!

Wait wait, I just got another idea. How about suspending the tail pipe and mud flap by having only an 8mm diameter bent rod type structure, taking inputs from those four holes on the bumper? They are "so conveniently" located on the web, not flange, two above and two below, so section modulus should be good! You know the number of ideas that can get generated like this? Idea number three and four are already in my head. My mind works like a bullet train. If I continue to type like this, this post will become very long.

I have just shown the correct way to make one Jeep properly. Go ahead and do it. Sorry for talking like this, but this is what differentiation is all about!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 3rd January 2012, 09:00   #93
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

Mud flap is shifted to the front side. Similar bracket is be offered on the LH side also to provide same location for the mud flap on both sides.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 09:58   #94
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
In order to have effective strength (section modulus) of this plate in "Z" axis, I would have provided a support to one of the four holes next to the big hole on the bumper.
Is "Z" axis force calculated with rubber elasticity factored?

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Both these actions will prevent bumper and bracket flex, otherwise the hook nut will loosen and fall off.
Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Wont a spring washer, or welding the hook solve this?

Cheers.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 12:16   #95
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Dear Carrot Eater - the root cause needs to be identified and eliminated. For doing that, the first thing is that people "who matter", (not necessarily people who "understand"), need to agree that there is an "issue", for which there is a "root cause". If at all this is achieved, then something great is achieved. Then comes the question of doing the "correct thing" or "something", also "which agency" should do it. If it is only "something" which is done by "some agency", even if parts come to the dealership from God, vehicle "issues" cannot get resolved. Then, the whole cycle starts all over again. By the time things come to a head because you guys make a lot of noise about it, people "who matter" have usually got promoted or transferred so it does not make any difference to them at all. And as a customer who has paid money to buy the product, are you satisfied with what's done? Charts and fancy presentations are flaunted by people "who matter" to the "biggest people who matter", to prove that "AAL IZZ WELL".

MAY GOD HELP CUSTOMERS!


Behram Dhabhar
(offtopic, but couldn't resist this
I believe you have written the pefect precis on the (currently raging) corporate culture.
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Old 4th January 2012, 17:28   #96
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Wont a spring washer, or welding the hook solve this?
Dear Mr.gthang - hello (its been quite a while). You can see the spring washer in the last photgraph of post no 87 on page no 6. Spring washers are prone to breaking if manufacturing process control is not spot-on, which is quite a regular occurence. Then there is torque loss of an M8*1.25 fastener on a test car. A properly manufactured, process-control torqued nyloc nut without spring washer is the answer. You want to weld the hook to the plate? HaHaHa. There is the logistics of first making a hook without yellow passivation, then sending this different part numbered hook to the welding vendor, provide him with a welding fixture means design and develop a fixture (oh my God!), then yellow passivate the assembly, for which you may need to send it to a different vendor who may not have vendor code, then vendor code for inwarding the assembly part of plate and hook may need to get generated, then order to be placed through spares blah blah blah. The whole rigmorale will start with a PPRF, hopefully it will go through to an FTR, which is a Ramayana + Mahabharata process rolled into one. So, Sir, this one is for "have you released kit part number"? "Yes Sir"! Plate new. Hook existing. Issue in excel file "green". Everybody happy. PPRF does not allow more than 50 such parts to be made. Finally, if the spring washer breaks, "some dealer technician will do something".

In the midst of all this, we made the whole vehicle! Got it? Good!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 4th January 2012, 18:50   #97
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

So, is there a performance box for this motor that will work on the Thar CRDe, Indian version?
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Old 9th January 2012, 11:42   #98
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

Hi All

Here are some updates on the exhaust fume issue.

After the reload / flashing of the ECU with the new data and the modified exhaust pipe installation - There is no issue of the smell.

This is true even with the back flap folded - there is no smell even at the back.

Up until now - I always drove with the rear flap closed - because I knew that the exhaust fumes will be pulled in because of the vacuum created by the moving jeep.

With the modified exhaust - that issue is no longer there. You can comfortably drive with the rear flap open / folded. Of course you'll still have to bear the dust and mud.

And the remapping of the ECU data set has solved the unburnt diesel smell issue completely.

The vehicle has become much more better to drive.
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Old 9th January 2012, 18:23   #99
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

Give it time. have done 600kms post mapping, traces of fume near drivers cabin
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Old 10th January 2012, 09:52   #100
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

Has anyone reported such exhaust fumes problem in Thar DI?
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Old 10th January 2012, 11:48   #101
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Give it time. have done 600kms post mapping, traces of fume near drivers cabin
I too have traces of fume surfacing back near the driver side after the ECU flash that was done during my last service. I have driven roughly 450 kms. since then.
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Old 10th January 2012, 23:16   #102
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Has anyone reported such exhaust fumes problem in Thar DI?
The Thar DI comes with the exhaust facing side ways. Kind of like the retrofit done on the Thar DI. Besides the engine is the same old BSIII unit that has been doing duty in the Major/Bolero/Invader to I guess this is not an issue with the Thar DI.

I didn't feel any such issue when I drove it.
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Old 12th January 2012, 22:45   #103
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
I am thanking my stars I chanced upon this thread, as I had decided to buy a CRDe THAR & convert it into a hard top et al....

Horrific stories that scare me - will keep me away for now - unless I come across an example that is modded with a hard top & is not a gas chamber


:-(
Plus One to that.Hope such problems in the Thar crde are resolved sooner than later--'cos many of us genuinely want to see it do well.Many of the current owners of the Thar were very generous with their praises about the things which the Thar truly excelled in--so I think Team Mahindra should take their criticism about its faults seriously; pull up their socks and rectify them at the earliest,so it becomes an even better product.
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Old 13th January 2012, 19:44   #104
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Plus One to that.Hope such problems in the Thar crde are resolved sooner than later--'cos many of us genuinely want to see it do well.Many of the current owners of the Thar were very generous with their praises about the things which the Thar truly excelled in--so I think Team Mahindra should take their criticism about its faults seriously; pull up their socks and rectify them at the earliest,so it becomes an even better product.
sir,
Please note that we are having issues but at the same time its taken care as well.In my group we are taking our 3rd THAR on next monday.Never purchase is stopped.Need caution to people who has used a well refined sedan cant settle with THAR, so those guys stay away.
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Old 14th January 2012, 00:36   #105
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Default Re: Exhaust fumes in Thar Cabin

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Originally Posted by vnambiar View Post
Give it time. have done 600kms post mapping, traces of fume near drivers cabin
Well - The issue hasn't come back as yet - have driven about 600 kms now - hopefully it remains that way.

Has it become any worse since your last post ?

Last edited by carrot_eater : 14th January 2012 at 00:38.
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