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Old 27th June 2013, 09:02   #211
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

I've been there when the RnD took place . I've been there when Vijay's HT was being done . Ive been there when we all went to the OTR in Matheran showcasing the HT on Vijay's THAR itself . Ive been there when the new HT design was finalized too.

There's definitely been efforts made from both ends to go the extra mile , either as a vendor or as a customer,there's no 2 cents bout this.

From what i can gather, without procrastination, i would suggest the following .
  1. Prabhu gets to investigate and amend (if any) the faults on the new hard top. He had , after all started this project with continuous inputs from both Team-bhp and especially the 4x4 community and regular OTR participants. I guess, the end result for a better product after feedback of 1 yr of ownership by the customers would only serve for the benefit of both.
  2. He would then show us all the pre and post amended diagnosis and its changes if any.
  3. Even though Vijay's HT was already replaced FOC after revising the changes suggested in the first HT supplied, the new revised HT with the now rectified design is offered to Vijay FOC as a gesture to the continous efforts put in from both parties.
  4. The same shall be extended to other customers if specific panels need replacement, that if its found that leakage and other kinks are caused by a process defect.
There are so many factors that affect the term life of a product. Its only natural that the 1st yr of any venture also faces the heat and/or acclaim towards unforseen conditions from its customers.
  1. A HT that's DIY'able
  2. A HT that's transportable.
  3. A HT that can take the stress of OTR events.
  4. A HT that has amazing fit n finish and sound proofing
  5. A HT that avoids heat build up within cabin
  6. A Targa Type HT
The THAR was an outrageously spoken about vehicle during its launch. We all wanted the HT that ticked all the boxes and that too before anyone decided whether to buy or not buy the THAR. That and everything above was achieved in a very short time frame , so there's probably 5 or 10 lemons in the market . Here's hoping that they are cleared up and customers are happy again, from which at the end of the day , is a very good product.

This forum is for and to discuss with Prabhu,the right direction for a better HT and hope he delivers. We all have been drivers of this initiative anyways through many well wishers like Fazal Saab and Vijay and the rest of this community.What say ?

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 27th June 2013 at 09:21.
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Old 27th June 2013, 09:17   #212
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Prabhu did mention to me earlier that he visits Bangalore periodically. If he is planning a trip soon, it will be a good opportunity to inspect all the HTs he has supplied to Thars in & around Bangalore and take corrective action as needed. It's an opportunity to take direct feedback himself and improve as needed.
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Old 27th June 2013, 09:20   #213
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha'Red View Post
Prabhu did mention to me earlier that he visits Bangalore periodically. If he is planning a trip soon, it will be a good opportunity to inspect all the HTs he has supplied to Thars in & around Bangalore and take corrective action as needed. It's an opportunity to take direct feedback himself and improve as needed.
Yes, a service camp can be scheduled. Good idea !
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Old 30th June 2013, 14:46   #214
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
BTW, can Prabhu/Fazal Sir confirm,if this problem is for a certain batch or common?
I believe as a goodwill gesture, Prabhu should rectify vjk2001 HT FOC or at least give a massive discount. 40K's is simply unacceptable.

Regards,
Varun
Varun,

Thank you.

This problem was for the very small, initial batch of HT's, the reason why more R&D was done on this HT until the solution was found and rectified.

From the beginning this thread has been transparent and kept the members of the forum and non members in the loop, from the prototype stage to development and improvement. Had it been a HT without the top opening panels many issues wouldn't have arrived at all. It was an adventurous design most would not undertake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
I think as Mr Fazal knows Mr Prabhu in person and better about this HT , he will/should be able address our issues and help in sorting out. We all know this HT thru Mr Fazal only.
Rajith,

Thanks.

There is no question of not responding to the issues faced by any customer. I personally know Prabhu and his customer-centric policy.

Before the first negative feed back was posted on this forum, he did explore the possibility of satisfying the customer by offering the (third) HT, at a lot much lower than the manufacturing cost. Also, please do remember that already the second HT was replaced totally free of cost as a good will gesture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vj_k2001 View Post
Question - Just going by paragraph 3 of prabhu's post, if I was promised a free replacement post a checkup by Prabhu then why in the name of God do I still have the defective piece considering this was brought to prabhu's notice 6 months ago. I have driven to his garage more than 10 times, one more wouldn't kill...

Answer - Prabhu told me that the piece I have is beyond repair and the only solution would be to put a new one which was improved at the cost of 40000 which was a 50 % discount. Like I said, I was never offered anything as a solution or alternative apart from incurring additional cost...
Vijay,

Until it was mentioned in Prabhu's reply, you did not state on the forum that you already had been given a full replacement for the first HT you had taken delivery of? The very first piece was at your instance and at your risk yet, Prabhu had replaced the full and second HT without any questions or any additional charge, right?

If you are really serious about any kind of compensation or that your problem be addressed to by Prabhu, why then are you not taking his calls after your post here?
After all this is about a product and its mutual settlement and nothing personal about it. I advise you to respond to Prabhu approach and move ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
There's definitely been efforts made from both ends to go the extra mile , either as a vendor or as a customer,there's no 2 cents bout this.
That is the positive spirit I would like to see continue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I take this opportunity to request all customers to contact me if they are having any problems with their hard tops. I would like to address each and every problem to the fullest satisfaction of the customers. I have spent a lot of time, money and effort on developing this hard top in order to give a good product to off-roaders with Jeeps, this was at the cost of my regular business, I therefore will not be satisfied till I give the best possible product to the Jeeping community."
Prabhu, as communicated through Ravveendrra, above.

Trust him, he will be there for you should you have any problems with your HT.

The very initial batch was having some issues after being exposed to over 6 months of seasonal changes, only then did the problem come to light, which has been accordingly rectified by design and material development.

Use this forum to positively express your concerns and problems.
There is a gentleman from Hyderabad who has this HT and has some leakage problems but never did he show up physically at Prabu's place, in the same city and goes to the extent of dissuading others from buying it by writing on another 4X4 group that "the HT is falling apart".
Living in the same city, what is stopping him from getting a HT that is "Falling Apart", replaced?

Malice is not going to stop the leakages but communication with the vendor.

We can agree to disagree. Fair criticism is most welcome, it will only help.

There are tons of threads on the negative aspects of the Thar, don't we wish Mahindra would respond in the same spirit as Prabhu did?
Regards,
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Old 30th June 2013, 21:10   #215
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Hello Fazal Sir,

I respect your views and will call Prabhu back. I received just 1 phone call so far but was in a meeting..

As far as the first HT is concerned. I took delivery of the HT at 11 pm on a Friday night and enroute to Bangalore got drenched as the HT leaked like there was no tomorrow. Even before arriving at Bangalore, there were cracks on the rear panel and the rear hatch hinge had given way because the top had cracked. Water leaked from all sides of the top. This was the same top that was brought to Bangalore on the orange Thar. Not once did Prabhu tell me about these problems before I took delivery or while enquiring about the top. He only told me that the issues were with sound as the wind hit the top and the back door had no locking mechanism. These and i repeat these were the only issues told to me. i called Prabhu at 6 am in the morning and explained all this and hence he agreed to Replacing it even before i reached my house.It was less than 8 hours since I took delivery. Let me reiterate sir, not once was I told that the top had never and I mean never been tested for leaks. I am to blame as well for not testing it before taking delivery but i blindly trusted prabhu. not once did Prabhu dissuaded me from buying it. I haven't complained or mentioned this before as it resulted in great camaraderie between Prabhu and me and I wanted him to use my thar to perfect his design.I returned to Hyderabad in 3 days to take the project forward.Post this there were 2 more pieces that were made which had exactly the same problems. I have made numerous and you know numerous trips to Hyderabad without complaining once all in the best interest of getting a good product and helping Prabhu. 2 of my numerous trips were even toto take delivery only to be let down. i know the amount of money and effort Prabhu and i have put in on this product and throughout this journey i have never once approached this as a customer or demanded for a refund...
The problems on my current HT originated 6 months ago when the HT was 5 months old. i have been calling prabhu ever since and asking for help. Not once have i asked for a replacement or a refund but on the contrary have been told to replace it as the material and workmanship in my top is not the best. Its been a 6 month long issue and i have pleaded with him to help me. I was disappointed to see Prabhu treat me like a unwanted customer rather than a friend. Writing what I have hasn't been easy considering the journey but I hope you understand the disappointment I have been through.
So I am not sure if the replacement of the first HT should be made to look like a gesture of goodwill considering the product given did not last the trip to Bangalore.
I am not asking for any favours but considering the support and journey I have been through along with Prabhu to get this product to where it is, all I am asking for is help. If this involves me coming to Hyderabad again and shelling out money again, well I am happy to live with the problem and would consider this my bad luck. I will not comment anymore on this thread sir and would leave it up to your judgement to do what is best....

Vijay
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Old 30th June 2013, 21:28   #216
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Vijay,

Appreciate your positive response, thank you.

As you know I am least involved on this HT apart from its refinement. We also are aware the effort that went into its production and development from Prabhu's end and the costs incurred. My priority now is to make things work out for both parties.

I also remember the first HT's problems, it was monsoon you had taken its delivery.

It is not a question of anyone favoring the other, its about accommodating a friend and a customer. Do get in touch with Prabhu and resolve the matter.

Regards,
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Old 5th July 2013, 23:05   #217
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Good News follows!!

Visited new mars today .
  1. The cause for leakage is identified and thankfully its not a serious flaw.
    The drain hole pipe,at the point of entry is the culprit.
    Previously the pipe was set in the mould and casting was completed. Only finishing was done to the final piece after removal from the mould.
    They have conducted an exercise of extra high pressure foam to identify the weak links of the whole cast and there were no faults found.
    Water was actually entering from the entry point of the pipe and foam joint at the drain channel.
    Then slowly the water builds up inside the foam and finds its way to the bolt fixtures within and the leakage starts.

Its been identified that little sealant is to be applied around the edges of the pipe inside the grove . This stops the water from entering into the foam section. In addition, a foam tape is now added to the open-able panels , this further restricts water entry into the drain channels, thereby creating a very tight seal .


A service camp is now scheduled by Prabhu at Bangalore and Delhi. All customers are being contacted and the service for this correction is being conducted.

The process is also very much DIYáble (one of the priorities of this HT design) ,so distant customers can also easily execute this modification.

Pictures to follow once i transfer them from phone.
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Old 6th July 2013, 08:28   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
Good News follows!!

Visited new mars today .

The cause for leakage is identified and thankfully its not a serious flaw.
The drain hole pipe,at the point of entry is the culprit.
Previously the pipe was set in the mould and casting was completed. Only finishing was done to the final piece after removal from the mould.
They have conducted an exercise of extra high pressure foam to identify the weak links of the whole cast and there were no faults found.
Water was actually entering from the entry point of the pipe and foam joint at the drain channel.
Then slowly the water builds up inside the foam and finds its way to the bolt fixtures within and the leakage starts.


Its been identified that little sealant is to be applied around the edges of the pipe inside the grove . This stops the water from entering into the foam section. In addition, a foam tape is now added to the open-able panels , this further restricts water entry into the drain channels, thereby creating a very tight seal .

A service camp is now scheduled by Prabhu at Bangalore and Delhi. All customers are being contacted and the service for this correction is being conducted.

The process is also very much DIYáble (one of the priorities of this HT design) ,so distant customers can also easily execute this modification.

Pictures to follow once i transfer them from phone.
Not wise and safe to buy till all our friends,especially Mr vijay says yes.won't invest on this now.
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:14   #219
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

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Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Not wise and safe to buy till all our friends,especially Mr vijay says yes.won't invest on this now.
Definitely a valid point,feedback is to be expected from existing Customers in the ensuing months.
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Old 6th July 2013, 12:18   #220
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

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Old 8th July 2013, 23:05   #221
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Default Re: Hyderabad Hard Top (Thar)

Got the HT to bangalore camp over the weekend. Sealant were applied and foam liners placed around the edges of open top. The drain holes were cleared. Tested, so far no leakages.

The back door edges had to be chiselled to ensure that it sits tight on the beading. The gap caused water to flow into vehicle from drain channels. Additional beading liners placed to close gaps. I did pour bucket water and tested, apart from checking on mild rains, no issues so far.

While I did not think there were any serious issues, as I suspected, it was about workmanship and resolvable. I think it was good for vijay to have highlighted issues that resulted in the service camp.
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Old 9th July 2013, 21:44   #222
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I had the HT serviced too and all air gaps were filled with sealant and the fasteners tightened. Now the cabin is so so much more quiter:-). The water leakage may reduce i think as they have added some foam packing and sealant around the hatch door. Need to wait for some heavy rains to know the change. Am happy with the HT overall.

Did see Vijay's HT...its in really bad shape with cracks everywhere and can understand his frustration.
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Old 10th July 2013, 11:28   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha'Red View Post

Did see Vijay's HT...its in really bad shape with cracks everywhere and can understand his frustration.
Is Wrapping a feasible and cheaper alternative to replacing the HT for Vijay ?
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Old 10th July 2013, 21:32   #224
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Originally Posted by Tha'Red View Post
Did see Vijay's HT...its in really bad shape with cracks everywhere
Explanation/ Root Cause analysis (from manufacturer, end user, anyone) would be enlightening.

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Old 10th July 2013, 21:54   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post

Is Wrapping a feasible and cheaper alternative to replacing the HT for Vijay ?
In my opinion wrapping is done to improve aesthetics and not engineering characteristics.
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