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Old 13th March 2012, 15:31   #1
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Exclamation Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

After a long thought process and due consideration, I have decided two things.

1. My next buy will be a new Japanese 4WD SUV, either the Fortuner or the Pajero Sport. This means that I need to wait for at least the next 3 years.

2. In the meantime, to satisfy my ever stronger urge to improve Hariya's abilities, I intend to fit either ARB Air lockers on his rear differential or the M&M OE MLD irrespective of their cost. The ARBs are rumoured to cost around 100,000.00 per axle for the locker, compressor and the other paraphernelia while the MLD costs around 25,000.00 INR.

Now the question, especially to the gurus out there. I feel that the ARB Diff lockers are better since the MLD would automatically lock the differential with a jerk once the difference in the rpm between both rear axles crosses the set threshold of 100 and the vehicle speed is less than 20 kmph.

Which among these is a better choice, cost notwithstanding, and, has anybody on the forum know anybody who has done such a fitment earlier?

I contacted the ARB dealer at Bangalore and have been sent the attached sheet and was told that if I can get him the measurements for the parameters mentioned, he will source the appropriate diff locker from ARB. Can anybody on the forum tell me these measurements, especially Spike, Arka, Shahnawaz, BD, UBS Sir etc who are the known Jeep gurus on the forum please?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf diff measurements.pdf (147.3 KB, 448 views)
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Old 13th March 2012, 16:09   #2
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
After a long thought process and due consideration, I have decided two things.

1. My next buy will be a new Japanese 4WD SUV, either the Fortuner or the Pajero Sport. This means that I need to wait for at least the next 3 years.

2. In the meantime, to satisfy my ever stronger urge to improve Hariya's abilities, I intend to fit either ARB Air lockers on his rear differential or the M&M OE MLD irrespective of their cost. The ARBs are rumoured to cost around 100,000.00 per axle for the locker, compressor and the other paraphernelia while the MLD costs around 25,000.00 INR.

Now the question, especially to the gurus out there. I feel that the ARB Diff lockers are better since the MLD would automatically lock the differential with a jerk once the difference in the rpm between both rear axles crosses the set threshold of 100 and the vehicle speed is less than 20 kmph.

Which among these is a better choice, cost notwithstanding, and, has anybody on the forum know anybody who has done such a fitment earlier?

I contacted the ARB dealer at Bangalore and have been sent the attached sheet and was told that if I can get him the measurements for the parameters mentioned, he will source the appropriate diff locker from ARB. Can anybody on the forum tell me these measurements, especially Spike, Arka, Shahnawaz, BD, UBS Sir etc who are the known Jeep gurus on the forum please?
Hi Devdath,

Is your scorpio a 4WD?

The Scorpio and Thar CRDe share the same Rear Axle Housing Carrier, and depending on the model the Crown Pinion.

Search the forum, this information has been posted quite often.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Dana44, 30 Spline, 3.92 and Up.
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Old 13th March 2012, 16:52   #3
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Devdath,

Is your scorpio a 4WD?

The Scorpio and Thar CRDe share the same Rear Axle Housing Carrier, and depending on the model the Crown Pinion.
PS - Dana44, 30 Spline, 3.92 and Up.
My Scorpio is a 2WD Arka. Can you help me find the information. I tried searching but to no avail.
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Old 13th March 2012, 18:52   #4
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Post Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Can anybody on the forum tell me these measurements, especially Spike, Arka, Shahnawaz, BD, UBS Sir etc who are the known Jeep gurus on the forum please?
Not a 'Guru' by any standards specially when you keep my name aside such eminent people, but still will try to help you out as I have done some work on this.

Quote:
The ARBs are rumoured to cost around 100,000.00 per axle for the locker, compressor and the other paraphernelia while the MLD costs around 25,000.00 INR.
Rs 100,000 for a locker in Rear axle? No way ! If you do not get the MLD you can also try the M&M LSD for Scorpio (Part No. - 0052903), see if you can get this part. Direct fit.

Quote:
I feel that the ARB Diff lockers are better since the MLD would automatically lock the differential with a jerk once the difference in the rpm between both rear axles crosses the set threshold of 100 and the vehicle speed is less than 20 kmph.
No, your understanding is wrong. The locking / unlocking is very subtle, you won't even realize unless you keep one ear near the differential.

Quote:
has anybody on the forum know anybody who has done such a fitment earlier?
Yes I have tried both LSD and MLD. IIRC, with MLD traction gain is around ~ 77%, LSD - ~ 50% compared to an open differential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Can you help me find the information. I tried searching but to no avail.
I doubt if you will get these dimensions. Also, please note that if you have any plans to measure the dimensions take hold of a good measuring instrument as the dimensions have very close tolerances. DO NOT use a tape or steel rule.

Spike
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Old 13th March 2012, 20:20   #5
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Not a 'Guru' by any standards specially when you keep my name aside such eminent people, but still will try to help you out as I have done some work on this.
Well that is your modesty Spike.

No, your understanding is wrong. The locking / unlocking is very subtle, you won't even realize unless you keep one ear near the differential. [/quote]
Ok, that is news to me. So when the MLD locks into place there wont be any jerk or sudden stress on the other drive train components at all?
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Old 13th March 2012, 20:39   #6
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

^^ No, no stress at all in case of MLD and LSD. You won't even hear that noise while driving. I am saying this as I have seen stripped down samples of drive-line components taken for analysis. I have read of a few failure cases also but that is too miniscule to be bothered of.

The sudden stress arises in some cases where there is clank-clank, khadang-khadang noise (used Hindi for better understanding ) during engagement / disengagement. Even with those stresses these parts continue to function properly.

Spike
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Old 13th March 2012, 21:19   #7
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

What happened to the LSD (as against the diff locker) and WINCH idea?
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Old 14th March 2012, 07:33   #8
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Devdath,

The ARB diff locks have been installed on the 4WD, black Scorpio in Hyd, last June. Contact BHP member Shams for details.
Regards,
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:09   #9
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
My Scorpio is a 2WD Arka. Can you help me find the information. I tried searching but to no avail.
Hi Devdath,

Please don't waste your money on a 2WD vehicle with such expensive mods.

A normal 4WD is better than 2WD with Diff-Locks.

Regards,

Arka

PS - I have given all the information you require.
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:19   #10
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

IMHO 2WD vehicle are not for such mods and it is not meant to be used on 4WD terrain. Basic question is: What do you want to achieve doing such mods and what is the purpose?
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:05   #11
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
The sudden stress arises in some cases where there is clank-clank, khadang-khadang noise (used Hindi for better understanding ) during engagement / disengagement. Even with those stresses these parts continue to function properly.
Thanks Spike, in that case, I now try to find and fit the MLD on Hariya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
What happened to the LSD (as against the diff locker) and WINCH idea?
Spikey told me that the MLD is better than the LSD and the winch too is in the offing, like always. So, now it is the MLD plus winch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Devdath,

The ARB diff locks have been installed on the 4WD, black Scorpio in Hyd, last June. Contact BHP member Shams for details.
Regards,
Thanks Fazal. I will PM him immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
A normal 4WD is better than 2WD with Diff-Locks.
I know that nothing beats 4 driven wheels compared to 2. All I m doing is giving as much capability as possible to my 2 driven wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Basic question is: What do you want to achieve doing such mods and what is the purpose?
Anuj, all I m trying to achieve is the maximum possible capability on my 2 driven wheels. I do not participate in OTRs and do not intend to.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 17:32   #12
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

I agree with Arka. Locker on a 2 wheel drive is not going to do much for you AT ALL. It's like putting lipstick on a pig, very limited returns on investment, much more work needed.

On a 2 or 4 wheeler, if you want to save some REAL money for a locker just get yourself a piece of water pipe or a strong stick of bamboo. Then, when your free wheel spins uselessly in the muck, front or rear, just do this. Put the stick thru a hole in the wheel. Then slowly rotate the wheel until the stick makes contact with the chassis or some stout part of the under carriage. This will stop the free wheel from spinning and transfer torque to the opposite wheel. Then drive out of the muck like you know what you are doing and recover the pipe or stick. I can send you a deluxe Dirtydan official bamboo stick for 1000 rupees only. It comes with a free autographed photo of either Headers in a tanktop or Sam Kapasi's tatooed ankle.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 22nd March 2012 at 17:37.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 18:50   #13
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Post My opinion

Dev,

Considering your situation now, "a normal 4WD" will
  • cost you a lakh (??) minimum and its associated hassles (provided it is old)
  • will be primarily suited for offroad use. As you are not into offroading much, spending a lakh ++ just to go once in a while to a beaten path, I do not know how feasible that would be for you.
  • It will not have the creature comforts (whatever it is) offered by your current 2WD Scorpio.
  • A LSD, MLD is the cheapest option for you provided you get everything done within 25K. ARB lockers (cost) and local stuffs (quality) would be a BIG NO!
  • Seeing the kind of rubbish people do with their cars, this is much more value for money. You can always revert back to stock (keep it as spare) if you want and sell off the other part. I am sure you will not loose anything in the transaction except the labor costs involved. These lockers will be in demand as they can be used on various M&M models.
  • If you want to keep Hariya for a few years before buying a new car this is the correct way forward.
However, I must reiterate that a 2WD with traction control devices is no match for a 4WD, you know that. I should have highlighted that aspect in my previous post.



Spike


PS- A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
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Old 17th April 2012, 22:04   #14
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Hi,
1100D has fitted a Eaton MLD in his 4x4 Scorpio. His report
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2745881
is likely to be missed by the 4X4 crowd, so mentioning it here.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 18th April 2012, 00:55   #15
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Default Re: Fitment of ARB Diff Lockers for Scorpio CRDe

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
I know that nothing beats 4 driven wheels compared to 2. All I m doing is giving as much capability as possible to my 2 driven wheels.
Hi devdath, you might be knowing it, but still, I wanted to remind/let you know that, in a 4WD, not only the four wheels are driven, but its the low ratio gearbox, that helps a LOT in tough situations.

You can litrally control your crawl up/down any steep or rocky incline, which is very difficult to do with a 2WD with more than enough power or traction.
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