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Old 14th June 2012, 13:30   #1
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Default XD3P turbo?

XD3P turbo?-capture.png

According to the chart above, Mahindra offered an XD3P TCI version. Seems like a nice power-to-weight ratio for Jeeps (much more hp than the mdi3200tc, and 50kg less weight), but I've never seen anything about this engine on the forums. Was it something only for the export market?

Also, though I think it's been asked before, I'm not sure I've found a definitive answer in the forums re: whether the later NEF engines (Scorpio 2.6, CRDe, etc), which may be based on the XD3P (same bore and stroke in the 2.5, 4mm longer stroke in the 2.6) utilize the same bellhousing mounting pattern as the older Peugeot-powered Jeeps and can be swapped in, or whether they've followed the newer DI's bolt pattern.

I find the power delivery of the original Scorpio 2.6 to be fantastic (much better than the CRDe in my experience, for hill driving, at least), and wondered whether such a unit could be physically mated to the drivetrain of an older, pre-DI LWB Jeep (Marshal), which being a heavy body really needs a little more power than the original Peugeots can provide. An XD3P turbo would also do the trick, I'm sure, if such a beast (or the parts to create one) actually existed here in India.

Regards,
Eric

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th June 2012 at 15:07.
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Old 15th June 2012, 07:28   #2
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Default Re: XD3P turbo / engine chart link & potential swaps

In "type of operation" it does not say turbo? Did you read it wrong, none the less a better powered xd3p - wonder what makes it powerful than the base model?!
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Old 15th June 2012, 14:34   #3
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Thanks for sharing, I wasn't aware of an XD3P with forced-induction. Now, you got me thinking. What a beautiful engine it would be for the light Classic. Just the thought of bumping torque up to 200+ Nm makes my mouth water. I see that the weight difference between N/A and turbo is only 20 kilos? Does that mean that, other than the turbo, the engines are identical?

BTW, there are quite a lot of references to the XD3P Turbo on Team-BHP. Click here to see them all.

Last edited by GTO : 15th June 2012 at 14:37.
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:03   #4
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
...According to the chart above, Mahindra offered an XD3P TCI version. Seems like a nice power-to-weight ratio for Jeeps (much more hp than the mdi3200tc, and 50kg less weight), but I've never seen anything about this engine on the forums. Was it something only for the export market?
...
This has been discussed somewhere in this forum earlier...they had this version only for the export markets. I guess it had some technical problems (overheating?...not sure) in the turbo'ed version, and was later discontinued. Hope someone with better awareness can confirm this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
...BTW, there are quite a lot of references to the XD3P Turbo on Team-BHP. Click here to see them all.
Nice feature , being able to give the link to a search...looks like Google search API integration ?
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:56   #5
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thanks for sharing, I wasn't aware of an XD3P with forced-induction. Now, you got me thinking. What a beautiful engine it would be for the light Classic. Just the thought of bumping torque up to 200+ Nm makes my mouth water.
Yup!. With 4500+ rpm, 100+ bhp for the TC-IC version, and 200+NM of real low end grunt, it should be the ideal engine without the hassles of ECUs etc..
Quote:
I see that the weight difference between N/A and turbo is only 20 kilos? Does that mean that, other than the turbo, the engines are identical?
As far as my research goes, all the parts are identical. Both feature the exact same 2498cc block. Only the intake and exhaust manifolds differ, with some slight changes in tuning to the bosch FIP.

Also, the head, I guess is a iron one for TC, TC-IC version. Only the turbo and plumbing are added. The turbo is a very mild one in the XD3P. So, I guess ~20kilos is correct.

XD3P with Turbo is called XD3T pumping out ~90bhp and 200+NM, and XD3P with turbo and intercooler is called XD3TE pumping out ~100+ bhp.

IMO, its a pretty straightforward and reliable conversion to turbo, as both XD3T and XD3TE are widely used outside India, in Peugeot 505 (?)

Last edited by dhanushs : 15th June 2012 at 16:01.
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Old 15th June 2012, 16:50   #6
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Exclamation XD3P turbo - can of worms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Attachment 941177

According to the chart above, Mahindra offered an XD3P TCI version.
Eric, please mention the source of this info, links etc. Looks like a compiled document though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
This has been discussed somewhere in this forum earlier...they had this version only for the export markets. I guess it had some technical problems (overheating?...not sure) in the turbo'ed version, and was later discontinued. Hope someone with better awareness can confirm this.
From a person with similar awareness as yours, yes it was for exports only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
IMO, its a pretty straightforward and reliable conversion to turbo, as both XD3T and XD3TE are widely used outside India, in Peugeot 505 (?)
Not so simple as it seems. XD3P with turbo (for Indian versions) is a can of worms. Yes, it is based on Peugeot platforms which employed a turbo, BUT Indian versions could never achieve that due to various reasons.

Let us know if you go ahead with this upgrade, will be closely following you with a set of thermocouples and a compression tester.

Spike
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Old 15th June 2012, 16:56   #7
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Attachment 941177

According to the chart above, Mahindra offered an XD3P TCI version. Seems like a nice power-to-weight ratio for Jeeps (much more hp than the mdi3200tc, and 50kg less weight), but I've never seen anything about this engine on the forums. Was it something only for the export market?

Also, though I think it's been asked before, I'm not sure I've found a definitive answer in the forums re: whether the later NEF engines (Scorpio 2.6, CRDe, etc), which may be based on the XD3P (same bore and stroke in the 2.5, 4mm longer stroke in the 2.6) utilize the same bellhousing mounting pattern as the older Peugeot-powered Jeeps and can be swapped in, or whether they've followed the newer DI's bolt pattern.

I find the power delivery of the original Scorpio 2.6 to be fantastic (much better than the CRDe in my experience, for hill driving, at least), and wondered whether such a unit could be physically mated to the drivetrain of an older, pre-DI LWB Jeep (Marshal), which being a heavy body really needs a little more power than the original Peugeots can provide. An XD3P turbo would also do the trick, I'm sure, if such a beast (or the parts to create one) actually existed here in India.

Regards,
Eric
Thats a nice comparison chart buddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thanks for sharing, I wasn't aware of an XD3P with forced-induction. Now, you got me thinking. What a beautiful engine it would be for the light Classic. Just the thought of bumping torque up to 200+ Nm makes my mouth water. I see that the weight difference between N/A and turbo is only 20 kilos? Does that mean that, other than the turbo, the engines are identical?

BTW, there are quite a lot of references to the XD3P Turbo on Team-BHP. Click here to see them all.
I had done my research on turbocharging an xd3p engine in the past but could not get many leads. Now that I am considering buying a xd3p 4x4 bolero, I am again interested in this subject. I am sure a competent mahindra mechanic or an authorized service center can do this modification to an existing xd3p engine. I wonder if something of this sort has been done already. There seems to be atleast 1 such turboed xd3p in hyderabad as indicated by this post here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2602288 (JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club) .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Yup!. With 4500+ rpm, 100+ bhp for the TC-IC version, and 200+NM of real low end grunt, it should be the ideal engine without the hassles of ECUs etc..
As far as my research goes, all the parts are identical. Both feature the exact same 2498cc block. Only the intake and exhaust manifolds differ, with some slight changes in tuning to the bosch FIP.

Also, the head, I guess is a iron one for TC, TC-IC version. Only the turbo and plumbing are added. The turbo is a very mild one in the XD3P. So, I guess ~20kilos is correct.

XD3P with Turbo is called XD3T pumping out ~90bhp and 200+NM, and XD3P with turbo and intercooler is called XD3TE pumping out ~100+ bhp.

IMO, its a pretty straightforward and reliable conversion to turbo, as both XD3T and XD3TE are widely used outside India, in Peugeot 505 (?)
I am sure that even if the XD3T and XD3TE were used in the export vehicles, we can still find the part supplier who supplied these parts to mahindra and take our conversion ahead, what say ?

Please keep us all posted if you can find any bolt on solution which doesn't require too much modifications to the intake , etc.

Dr. A Ghosh

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Not so simple as it seems. XD3P with turbo (for Indian versions) is a can of worms. Yes, it is based on Peugeot platforms which employed a turbo, BUT Indian versions could never achieve that due to various reasons.

Let us know if you go ahead with this upgrade, will be closely following you with a set of thermocouples and a compression tester.
Spike
Spike, can you enlist the potential problems and pitfalls of this ? Can this be done using some OEM part ?

Dr. A Ghosh

Last edited by GTO : 16th June 2012 at 09:54. Reason: Merging both your posts.
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Old 15th June 2012, 20:29   #8
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abheekg View Post
Please keep us all posted if you can find any bolt on solution which doesn't require too much modifications to the intake , etc.
Hi Dr A.Ghosh,

The solution is bolt on only, if you manage to find the right parts. As I mentioned, the Intake manifold, the exhaust manifold has to be swapped/altered. Also, an oil cooler is to be added. If the FIP is bosch, then I guess, some tweaking should supply enough fuel for the added air. Or else, change fuel pump.

Also, Indian XD3P's come with Aluminium head. I have read that if its changed to iron head, then overheating issues can be sorted out somewhat.

Everything is bolt on, if you manage to source the right parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abheekg View Post
Spike, can you enlist the potential problems and pitfalls of this ? Can this be done using some OEM part ?
The main issue is fuel supply and overheating. For fuel supply, one can alter/swap the pump. For overheating, oil cooler can be added, with some mods in cooling system. Overheating is also caused due to fuel supply issues. So, if the former is sorted out completely, the latter can be dealt with only an improved cooling system. Probably a degassing set up, with bigger army type radiators.

This is what I know. Maybe experts can correct/add.

Last edited by dhanushs : 15th June 2012 at 20:31.
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Old 16th June 2012, 21:27   #9
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Default Re: XD3P turbo - can of worms

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Not so simple as it seems. XD3P with turbo (for Indian versions) is a can of worms. Yes, it is based on Peugeot platforms which employed a turbo, BUT Indian versions could never achieve that due to various reasons.

Let us know if you go ahead with this upgrade, will be closely following you with a set of thermocouples and a compression tester.
Hi,
Full disclosure needed! (esp about the compression tester. BTW, not a cylinder leakage tester? )

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 16th June 2012, 21:51   #10
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Lightbulb Why compression tester

Hi,

Sorry, cannot disclose anything here and I guess you know the answer.

Regarding why compression tester -

a) Because it is easily and readily available, leak tester - I feel, not everyone has it, except specialized / good reputed shops.

b) Compression tester again because I do not intend to find 'what' is causing the problem. I just need to know the health of the engine in a crude / simple / quick way. If I need to pin point 'what' the cause is , I would choose the leakage tester.

I hope that answers why not a leak tester?

I know, you are aware that the symptoms of leakage between cylinders and between cylinder and adjacent water jackets are different.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 16th June 2012 at 21:53.
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Old 16th June 2012, 22:35   #11
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Default

Buhaha....

I have this ... In my 550. And he flies... Can stay with a thar till 80... Beyond that the kmt90 gb kills it.

Under normal conditions temp is under 70. Driven hard, gets to 90...

But I cheated...

I didn't take an XD3P and turbo it, but took an XD2C and converted it

Last edited by prabhuav : 16th June 2012 at 22:39.
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Old 4th July 2012, 20:08   #12
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Looks like it's been done elsewhere as well...


Turbo running @ ~25psi on an XD3
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Old 6th July 2012, 10:34   #13
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Yes , the Peugeot 505 came with the 2.3 liter XD2 and the 2.5 liter XD3 engines.

Identical bore, but 7mm extra stroke. All that is different is the the crankshaft with a 3.5 extra offset and a piston that is shorter by 3.5 mm to compensate.

The block , the connecting rods and the head are identical.

I got the turbocharged XD2S engine and swapped out the crank and pistons from the XD3P and voila I have the XD3T engine..

The 2 fundamental difference in this approach are:

The French made block and con rods are much better metal - designed with Forced induction in mind. And the Block has much better lubrication,stuff like under piston oil sprays etc.

Same goes with the BOSCH pump, which has a boost compensater. On a regular pump , with a turbo, you are either running too rich under boost , or running to lean while in boost.

Most of the overheating issues of the Mahindra's attempts to TC the XD3 are a combination of the two..

My tuppence
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Old 6th July 2012, 11:04   #14
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

Dear all - XD3P turbo alternate is there in the original Peugeot Engines specification list. For that matter, even XDP4,90 had a turbo variant in its catalogue, way back in 1981. My very good friend Gopal Munankami had all details. He now works for AVL. The biggest difference is that the material specification of the crank shaft is different. It is not a bolt-on job. It is a can of worms, as Pratheesh has rightly pointed out. The rest of the story is best left unsaid.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 13th July 2012, 18:41   #15
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Default Re: XD3P turbo?

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - It is a can of worms, as Pratheesh has rightly pointed out. The rest of the story is best left unsaid.
To Spikey and DB Sir,
i know few people who have installed partial borrowed from DI engine ( max cab, bolero etc). they are using it from few years without any problem.
My question is - is partial turbo useful for XD3P engine? can the existing internals of engine take this load?
can you please enlighten us?

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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