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Old 23rd September 2012, 22:23   #1
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Default Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Hi Guys,

I recently converted the Thar from IFS to Solid Axle. This was done for an off-roader friend who drive his Thar particularly hard. He has had issues with front axles on the CRDE Thar, which hopefully should get resolved with this conversion.

We used the front Solid Axle from an Armada, which matched the front track of Thar. More importantly, we have retained the original rack and pinion Power Steering and used it with the solid axle.

The initial results have been fairly encouraging. The Thar now has better articulation, and as per the owner, the off-road performance has also improved. Though the steering is not as precise as the original, it nevertheless does not compromise the drivability.

I am attaching some pictures for reference.

Regards, Jaskirat
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Last edited by Jaskirat : 23rd September 2012 at 22:25.
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Old 23rd September 2012, 23:57   #2
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Default re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

This is a cool sounding conversion. Keep us updated about the performance of the change. Hope it works reliably over extended periods
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Old 24th September 2012, 06:25   #3
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Default re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Hi Jaskirat,

What is Thar's front track width?. You guys could have gone for a OKBJ type. The peace of mind from issues/maintenance is priceless. Is the spindle casing from Armada?

Could you please post some more pics of the Rack and Pinion set up. Also, the pics of the steering column. Where is the rack mounted?. Retained original ball joints?. Any change is steering column? IMO, however, we try it, a Rack and Pinion steering cannot be linked with a Sold Axle. Too much issues to sort out.

Also, Jaskirat, could you please post pics of the leaf spring mounting points on the chassis, and how you finalized on it.

- Dhanush
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:17   #4
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Default re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

need lots more pics, possibly from a jacked up ramp? looking in detail for...

1) GB to front diff angle
2) shackle points welding on chassis
3) steering setup pics
4) oil sump Vs front diff
5) ramp test with both left and right fully up to see prop shaft angle and distance from oil sump.

thx
santosh
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:30   #5
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Default re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Excellent thread. I am sure many many offroaders here will be glued on to this one and the details. As other folks have suggested, need more details on what all it involved and pics.

I am particularly interested in chassis structural strength for leaf perches (how we achieved that) plus sump clearance at articulation, bump stops, stabilizer bar in front, etc.

Again, kudos to you for a journey in this direction. this is REALLY good.
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Old 24th September 2012, 14:39   #6
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Default re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Small diameter tyres are not giving much G.C. But if you mount larger diameter Tyres you end up fooling the ECU on this motor, yes?
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Old 24th September 2012, 15:27   #7
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Here is a related thread on the topic : Linky (Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?)
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Old 24th September 2012, 16:44   #8
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

The change to the steering geometry makes me leery first and foremost.

Jaskirat, please be careful, you may now be attacked by a middle-aged fanatical engineer This one doesn't drive a train usually.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 24th September 2012 at 16:47.
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Old 24th September 2012, 19:27   #9
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hi Jaskirat,

What is Thar's front track width?. You guys could have gone for a OKBJ type. The peace of mind from issues/maintenance is priceless. Is the spindle casing from Armada?

Could you please post some more pics of the Rack and Pinion set up. Also, the pics of the steering column. Where is the rack mounted?. Retained original ball joints?. Any change is steering column? IMO, however, we try it, a Rack and Pinion steering cannot be linked with a Sold Axle. Too much issues to sort out.

Also, Jaskirat, could you please post pics of the leaf spring mounting points on the chassis, and how you finalized on it.

- Dhanush
Hi Dhanush, I agree with you that OKBJ type would have been better, but we were unable to get a good second hand solid axle (4x4) with OKBJ, and chanced upon this unit. Thar CRDE's front track is 57 inch. This indeed is from an Armada.

I will definitely post some more pictures, but that will have to wait till the weekend. I have requested the owner to bring the Thar back for a photo shoot.

Meanwhile, the R&P is mounted in its original location. The ball joints have also been retained as in the original. As you can see from the pictures, we have made special steering arms to connect the R&P.

So far the system seems to be working quite fine, with the Thar having participated in Mahindra Great Escape, Chandigarh and NIOC, Gurgoan.

As mentioned, will post more pictures on the weekend.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
need lots more pics, possibly from a jacked up ramp? looking in detail for...

1) GB to front diff angle
2) shackle points welding on chassis
3) steering setup pics
4) oil sump Vs front diff
5) ramp test with both left and right fully up to see prop shaft angle and distance from oil sump.

thx
santosh
Hi Santosh,

Thanks for providing a very clear check list for pictures. As mentioned, I will organize these pictures over the weekend and post them.

Regards, Jaskirat

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Excellent thread. I am sure many many offroaders here will be glued on to this one and the details. As other folks have suggested, need more details on what all it involved and pics.

I am particularly interested in chassis structural strength for leaf perches (how we achieved that) plus sump clearance at articulation, bump stops, stabilizer bar in front, etc.

Again, kudos to you for a journey in this direction. this is REALLY good.
Thank khan_sultan. As advised, will do the needful and cover the areas mentioned by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
The change to the steering geometry makes me leery first and foremost.

Jaskirat, please be careful, you may now be attacked by a middle-aged fanatical engineer This one doesn't drive a train usually.
I like the 'middle-aged fanatical engineer clap' - You probably are right. This project was a 'leap of faith', and could not have been initiated without the Thar's owner - Karan Bali. His driving style is murderous, and if these modification survive him, engineering bit can be kept aside.

Regards, Jaskirat


Note to the Mods: Karan Bali, the owner of this Thar, has been trying to join Team-bhp for a very long time. The guy is a die hard enthusiast and would greatly benefit from the learning that he receives from the stalwarts of this forum.
Attached Thumbnails
Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle-20120923_144635.jpg  

Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle-20120923_144642.jpg  

Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle-20120923_144652.jpg  

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Old 24th September 2012, 19:36   #10
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Why the 2 steering tie rods on each knuckle?
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Old 24th September 2012, 19:52   #11
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Why the 2 steering tie rods on each knuckle?
We retained the lower tie rod to reduce the stress / redistribute the load on the R&P Steering and the Arms that we have fabricated. We were initially planning to install a damper for which we would have needed the lower rod. Though the damper was not installed, we retained the tie rod.

Last edited by Jaskirat : 24th September 2012 at 19:55. Reason: Correction in text
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Old 24th September 2012, 23:35   #12
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Interesting! So the bottom is just a non moving non functional rod just kept to stop the wheels from going in different directions if the steering tie rod breaks! Ingenious!
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Old 25th September 2012, 00:13   #13
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Very interesting, a friend of mine changed axles twice in last 6 months, if its a success and easy to do lot of off-roaders immediately start doing it,
By the way for the price of One CV joint of Thar we can replace full OKBJ i think.
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Old 25th September 2012, 00:49   #14
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Jaskirat, top class!! Did you do any significant changes to the suspension set up? I see two hydraulic(or are they gas charged?) shock absorbers. Can you post some pics of the suspension setup and axle mount, drive shaft to front axle?

The Power steering lining seems to be inbetween the differential and the chassis(pic 1 & 2) can you explain that further? What happens when the vehicle is not articulating? Is there a sufficient clearance?(I am sure you would have thought on this, but just curious to know! Don't misundertand me friend.)

1. Is there is any raise/loss in approach angle?

2. How practical is this OKBJ as a daily commute, other than for hard core off roading?

(a naive, non-technical question!)
3. What about the legalities?
Is it still road legal?(with this modification!)

Thanks!

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 25th September 2012 at 00:54.
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Old 26th September 2012, 14:28   #15
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Very interesting, a friend of mine changed axles twice in last 6 months, if its a success and easy to do lot of off-roaders immediately start doing it,
By the way for the price of One CV joint of Thar we can replace full OKBJ i think.
Sir, how much is it? just for our knowledge! Couple of friends decided against the Crde for the same reason about cost of the critical CV joint. I recall Tanzeem/brothers spending close to 25K (?) for their scorpio's, is it the same figure?
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