Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th April 2013, 12:48   #16
BHPian
 
Terrainsnooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 34
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Actually he does not work on Jeeps. most of the jeeps which you see are owned by him or his close friends only.
It must be Bolero without front bumper (light golden color) with AT tyres. if yes, then its owned by Shetty's very close friend.
This was the reason me not posting his picture online. He has spent months on white jeep and modified it very very neatly.
I get my work done at Wakad by a mechanic who was with Mahindra for few decades and work ONLY on Jeeps. though all my friend's cars are taken care by Shetty only.

Shubhendra
...ok, makes sense now. I would have liked him to do the job, he does a decent and honest job on cars, me and my friend have been going to him for quite some time now. He clearly has a passion for what he does, as compared to the other money-looters out there.
Can you tell us where your preffered Wakad workshop is and his contact details, if he does engine builds and other Jeep stuff?
Terrainsnooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th April 2013, 16:09   #17
BHPian
 
ringoism's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Himachal
Posts: 479
Thanked: 1,093 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

The question's been asked / re-asked, but here's my two cents:

I like the MDI3200 in our Marshal (see "Our Marshal NGCS" thread for more details) considerably more than the 4.9 LWB Commander/Armadas I've driven (I'll get to the XD3P momentarily)

The MDI's extra torque can mean the ability to handle more highway-worthy gearing while still remaining capable off-road; thus better for multi-purpose all-rounder vehicles. The old 4.9's typically matched with 5.38:1 gears really screamed pretty objectionably on the highway, subjectively, even at speeds as low as 60kph (and thus wore out faster / overheated, etc, too). Whereas with 4.27:1 gears / 6.00-16 tires and the KMT-90, our Marshal ran around 100kmph+ on the Chandigarh/Delhi expressway with surprising ease (even my wife thought so). I can agree with the various inputs / points of view already presented, but will add:

*The MDI has a cast-iron head less prone to cracking / warpage than the aluminum Peugeot's, so even if you managed to overheat it once or twice, it's less likely to cause expensive problems.

*MDI has wet liners like the 4.9 (and unlike the XD3P). Besides requiring less skill / precision to work on, is also basically roadside-rebuildable (for those planning expeditions in remote places).

*MDI has a gear-driven camshaft - virtually impossible to break, vs. the XD3P's weaker timing chain.

*Compared with most other IDI diesels, I've noted that the rotary IP / governor on our MDI really makes slow crawling easy - I can actually upshift all the way through fourth gear without ever touching the throttle at all, and the IP/gov automatically feeds in as much throttle as needed to maintain idle speed. Just last night I idled it in second gear (high range) part way up a steep, rocky dirt track without using any right foot at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Peugeot's will just stall if one tries to drive that way.

*Probably better future spare parts availability for the prolific MDI than either of the Peugeots, as the 4.9 is long discontinued and the XD3P besides being discontinued was also relatively lower-volume vs. the DI (but then again, 4.9's are found in enthusiast vehicles that continue to be re-registered, where the MDI's were mainly in commercial vehicles with a 15-year maximum registration - so maybe not).

*Probably better mileage with the MDI (vs. 4.9), if geared appropriately.

*Theoretically better cold-weather starting and longer battery life for MDI (though that will depend to some extent on the condition of either engine and your climate).

Granted, in a lighter body than our LWB, weight of the engine is more of an issue off-road (though a couple of doorless lightweights did come from M&M with the DI, some with 3.73 gears!), and the additional torque is probably a little less of an advantage.

In terms of driving pleasure / raw offroad capability, the XD3P would probably win hands-down; Similar torque and fuel economy as the MDI, but in a much quieter / lighter / more refined package (think original Bolero); unfortunately at the expense of raw strength / reliability / serviceability; Which is where the MDI probably tops every other M&M engine to date (incl. DI Turbo).

So it's a typical compromise scenario; only YOU can decide in which direction you can most easily make those inevitable sacrifices.

Thanks,
Erik

Last edited by ringoism : 26th April 2013 at 16:15.
ringoism is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2013, 08:46   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Please don't. A known devil is better than an unknown angel.

It's going to be quite a challenge to source an XD3P, coping with unknown history, rebuilding and shoehorning it into your engine bay.

My Jeep has run the 2.1 as well as the 2.5 diesels. While the latter is superior, I can assure you that the marginal improvements aren't worth the headache. Retrospect is always the genius and I wish I'd rebuilt my 2.1 when it had blown up. Spent a lot of time, money & effort in the entire exercise of getting the Jeep where she is today.

Related Thread (Mahindra Classic 4x4. 2.5 Liter Diesel. Back on the road!)
I'm surprised you are not happy with the XD3P swap. You may not be able to run an AC off the 2.1 for starters, on your jeep.

Also, the XD3P is much quieter than the Peugeot 2.1
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2013, 11:10   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 10
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Mod Note: Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further. Request to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 29th April 2013 at 12:24.
mustag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2013, 12:47   #20
BHPian
 
Terrainsnooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 34
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hi,

The XDP 4.9 rebuild will cost you only about ~15k. Original Mahindra rebuild kit will cost you only ~6k, and it can be done perfectly even out side A.S.S with medium skilled labour. It is a pretty good engine in an off roader. Also, an engine swap if not done properly is a head ache, and has its legal issues too (assuming engine is not new). So, my first take is to keep the XDP 4.9.
Hi Dhanushs, are you sure that the OEM Mahindra rebuild kit (including Sleeves, piston rings, pistons, valve guides etc) will cost only ~6k? I just bought all of the above (including head-gasket) but without bearings for about 11k. Another point of concern is the way that the 'medium skilled labour' re-torques the head, apparently there is a fixed pattern you have to follow to torque the head-bolts, the last time i changed my head gasket, the chaps basically sat on the engine and wrung the spanners till the bolts were tight, in some random pattern, which as per their experience allows the head gasket to crush properly between the block and the head. Any idea how much the bearings cost? I belive that the XDP4.9 does not have a timing chain,so the parts above should suffice. Any other important parts to be inspected and changed?
Terrainsnooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2013, 17:12   #21
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,201
Thanked: 821 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrainsnooper View Post
Another point of concern is the way that the 'medium skilled labour' re-torques the head, apparently there is a fixed pattern you have to follow to torque the head-bolts, the last time i changed my head gasket, the chaps basically sat on the engine and wrung the spanners till the bolts were tight, in some random pattern, which as per their experience allows the head gasket to crush properly between the block and the head.
You are right here, this is a very basic thing . There is a sequence for tightening the the head bolts & also some specified amount of torque at which the bolts need to be tightened .

Use of torque wrench is necessary . Its a Must

As far as I remember the sequence of head bolt tightening is provided in user manual of the M&M vehicle. I remember seeing it on my 540 manual .

Aluminium heads are sensitive for such .

Sudarshan
Sudarshan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2013, 17:38   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
desertfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon, Delhi NCR
Posts: 1,186
Thanked: 522 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

I have managed to get a very good XDP engine totally rebuilt with Fuel Injectors recaliberated by Bosch but everyone says only a very experienced hand can attend to an XDP engine, it requires a lot of precision and accuracy.

Here at NIOC in Gurgaon, we have many MM550 Jeeps with DI as well as XDP engines and the difference of opinion is huge, but in actual off road operations the difference is not apparent at all.

I do have the DI Turbo 3200 engine in my Balero. It has done 120,000 KM without a blemish. And even in the Delhi winter, where outside ambient temperatures fell to 2 Deg C this year it would start with half a turn of the ignition.

In Delhi / Meerut market a second hand DI engine retails for about Rs. 75,000 ( fully restored ones ).
desertfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 10:46   #23
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 46,577
Thanked: 80,480 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
I'm surprised you are not happy with the XD3P swap.
I'm actually immensely satisfied with the XD3P swap. Over 3 years and not a single issue. Awesome torque & great driveability.

My point was : There isn't much of a difference from the 2.1. Sure, power & torque are a bit more, but the advantage isn't such that I'd recommend a 2.1 owner to go through the more complicated exercise of swapping for a 2.5.

Quote:
You may not be able to run an AC off the 2.1 for starters, on your jeep.
My air-con was originally installed on the 2.1 and it ran like a charm.

Quote:
Also, the XD3P is much quieter than the Peugeot 2.1
I disagree here. Sound levels are exactly the same. Maybe, you are comparing the NVH levels of a well-insulated MM550 to a barebones Classic. In the same vehicle, there is no difference between the two engines.
GTO is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 11:02   #24
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,407
Thanked: 3,930 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sure, power & torque are a bit more
Hmm.. GTO, I've had this doubt for long. I think your XD3P is a newer version, which has a EGR, is BSIII (?) and is detuned to 68 bhp? Can you please confirm this? If so, you are right, I've driven a couple of these and there isn't much of a worthy difference for a swap. But, the army XD3P's were 76bhp, with 500 or so extra rpm. I guess everyone here are comparing that to the XDP 4.9.
dhanushs is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 11:37   #25
BHPian
 
Shubhendra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poona
Posts: 948
Thanked: 1,107 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
You are right here, this is a very basic thing . There is a sequence for tightening the the head bolts & also some specified amount of torque at which the bolts need to be tightened .

Use of torque wrench is necessary . Its a Must

As far as I remember the sequence of head bolt tightening is provided in user manual of the M&M vehicle. I remember seeing it on my 540 manual .

Aluminium heads are sensitive for such .

Sudarshan
As i recently overhauled XDP, torque wrench is MUST along with sequence of bolt tightening.

Shubhendra
Shubhendra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 12:49   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,653
Thanked: 679 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I think your XD3P is a newer version, which has a EGR, is BSIII (?) and is detuned to 68 bhp?
Dhanush, XD3P had an EGR system. If they came in BS-III versions, they would not have been discontinued today. BS-II models were produced.

Spike
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 20:52   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hmm.. GTO, I've had this doubt for long. I think your XD3P is a newer version, which has a EGR, is BSIII (?) and is detuned to 68 bhp? Can you please confirm this? If so, you are right, I've driven a couple of these and there isn't much of a worthy difference for a swap. But, the army XD3P's were 76bhp, with 500 or so extra rpm. I guess everyone here are comparing that to the XDP 4.9.
They had a different Fuel pump The army XD3Ps were superb, low noise, free revving and eager to move.

Can Spike clarify the part number ?

Thanks
headers is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2013, 21:19   #28
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,444
Thanked: 1,942 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

My take: The XD3 had far better torque compared to the XDP if the test was climbing ghat roads. In acceleration on level roads, there was hardly anything between them. Seems contradictory, doesn't it!?

I have a (unsubstantiated) theory as to why it is so, but would like others opinion on my observation first.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2013, 09:40   #29
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 46,577
Thanked: 80,480 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Can you please confirm this?
Mine is the 72.5 BHP version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The XD3 had far better torque compared to the XDP if the test was climbing ghat roads. In acceleration on level roads, there was hardly anything between them.
There's definitely all-round enhancement in power & torque delivery (whether on climbs or open roads).

Let me put it another way : The first-gen Honda City had the regular 1.5 & the Vtec. The Vtec was a better engine. However, it wasn't that much better that I'd recommend a City owner with a factory-fit 1.5 to go for an after-market Vtec swap. The headache is way too much for the gains to be had.
GTO is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2013, 12:39   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default Re: XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Mine is the 72.5 BHP version.



There's definitely all-round enhancement in power & torque delivery (whether on climbs or open roads).

Let me put it another way : The first-gen Honda City had the regular 1.5 & the Vtec. The Vtec was a better engine. However, it wasn't that much better that I'd recommend a City owner with a factory-fit 1.5 to go for an after-market Vtec swap. The headache is way too much for the gains to be had.
Factory Fitment OEM - THAT is the key I agree.

However, most "indian" jeeps are built from scratch and hence when it comes to a choice of the 2.1 or 2.5, the 2.5 is preferred choice for many
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family Samurai 4x4 Vehicles 1469 6th July 2017 14:42
Buying a Mahindra CL500 MDI? antonjeeper 4x4 Vehicles 22 29th July 2016 14:23
Mahindra Thar MDI - Driven! dhanushs 4x4 Vehicles 159 1st September 2015 20:05
Mahindra Thar MDi Thread (more pics at page 24) The Wolf 4x4 Vehicles 467 18th January 2011 11:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:19.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks