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Old 21st March 2014, 19:41   #16
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
Hey Tejas,

Great initiative to train future marshals, particularly people who donot have access to become part of a large organized event and thus learn on the job.

Hey people without a car / experienced driver at home do need a driving school right?

Cheers
Thanks for the encouragement.

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Originally Posted by nanju View Post
Coming from a Rally background.. FMSCI has recognized Offroading.. The last event MUDSKIPPER III which was held in Coorg, was permitted by FMSCI and three stewards were appointed to supervise the event. Along with a chief steward. The permit was issued under the name OFF-Roading Event. So, I am sure if you approach the FMSCI, they will support you in this venture. If am not wrong, I have seen FMSCI logo in all the Mahindra events.
Hi Nanju,

Thanks for the information. Can you provide me with a contact in FMSCI who can supply me guidelines related to offroading. Better yet, if you can get it and post for benefit of all.

I've already contact the VP of FMSCI and awaiting an answer.

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Originally Posted by Twinn View Post
Seriously Tejas that quite an exhaustive report, by now I see the thread has grown with lots of growling.

Anyways do not want to quote on any points and prolong, but here is one, about an only offroader who knows about offroading or recovery techniques.

Please visit the rural areas, where jeeps/tractors are the only modes of transport. Even a Kid (read who knows driving) will show you how to recover a vehicle by using the natural resource around him/her and it it all learnt by experience, nothing taught in the schools which they attend or qualified in.

My intentions are not to spread negativeness, Offroading-sport is not the way an individual looks at, its way how a group of like minded Jeeper folks would look at. Most of the OTR's I have attended, it is always an Jeeper who is an marshal and Nobody pays for a Marshal, infact Marshals also pay up in most of the events they enter.
True, experience is the best teacher but also there's another saying the mind eye cannot understand what the mind doesn't know.

If we took these same village boys and taught them safer techniques would it be better for all around?

Some events pay for marshal food and entry (though not actually paying for services). Again it's up to individual organisers.

Quote:
My question was for a perspective of a commoner, who wishes to attend offroading events, would you really think organizers would encourage him/her to participate as a Marshal with ID that you provide?
How can i answer that? All i can do is put up the things taught and then it's unto the organisers to make their decision.

Quote:
Really!! I agree knowledge is useful, but after paying a premium.. I'm not sure how many would be happy... It would be like the MBA's who work in BPO's these days.
Let's get feedback after the course if they found it worth their while. I'm a dentist spending some time to offroad as well

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Originally Posted by Abbas View Post
@ Tejas: Great Initiative to say the least. If someone is coming forward and sharing knowledge, what`s the harm ? Also, certification really doesn`t matter. What matters is the knowledge that is acquired.

Regarding forming an Apex body for Offroading:

My company TT Motorsports also organizes Autocross in visakhpatnam for the past 2 years and i am myself an Steward with FMSCI. FMSCI does issues permits for offroad events. Last year Cougar Motorsports for instance have organised off road trail driving across india for TATA. They came to visakhapatnam as well and i have attend one such event of theirs. The same is for Mahindra as well. You can apply for a permit when you conduct offroad events.

Personally i think you are doing an amazing thing by conducting such training session, wish you a best of luck.

Hope to see you soon.

Abbas.
Thanks Abbas for the encouragement. Autocross is definitely under the purview of FMSCI.

My question is: does FMSCI have guidelines for offroad teaching - courses or marshals? Or they just issue a permit to use their accreditation? If they have guidelines, i'll be first in line.

The Tata event was a showcase and no FMSCI marshals were there.
________________________________

I should have probably not mentioned the IDs. That was stirred the hornet's nest.

Bottom line: Let the participants attend and give their verdict if the knowledge that they gained was worth their while. I'm confident that they will be happy so let's see… Till now my previous courses have gotten a very positive response with participants asking for more.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 21st March 2014 at 19:44.
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Old 21st March 2014, 20:08   #17
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post

Thanks Abbas for the encouragement. Autocross is definitely under the purview of FMSCI.

The Tata event was a showcase and no FMSCI marshals were there.
Dear Tejas,

Yes, fmsci issues permit and also have certain guidelines. Also, to let you know Tata event was not a competitive event and was just trail driving. The event was overlooked by Steward from fmsci. Chief steward was from chandigarh, 1st steward from Calcutta(female) , 2nd club steward from cougar. Although I was also a Steward, I was not on official duty at that point of time and was present thier from dealer's side.

Last edited by aah78 : 21st March 2014 at 21:59. Reason: Quote fixed.
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Old 21st March 2014, 21:38   #18
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by Abbas View Post
Dear Tejas,

Yes, fmsci issues permit and also have certain guidelines. Also, to let you know Tata event was not a competitive event and was just trail driving. The event was overlooked by Steward from fmsci. Chief steward was from chandigarh, 1st steward from Calcutta(female) , 2nd club steward from cougar. Although I was also a Steward, I was not on official duty at that point of time and was present thier from dealer's side.
Thanks.

The one I attended was different then. Apologies.

As a steward can u get me fmsci offroad guidelines?

On a very light and humerous note: were the stewards from fmsci with years of experience in off-roading who knew the trail inside out? Nah don't answer that, these questions are meant only for offroad junkie not fmsci.

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Old 22nd March 2014, 10:25   #19
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

Great initiative tejas. Knowlege will always be useful. Guys I have done two workshops by Tejas one for How to use the hilift jack and other one on winching . Both were very professionaly taken with practicals and we all learnt a lot.
I feel that one must put aside their ego and be wiling to learj with a open mind . We must be proud that we have a person in India who has put in a lot of efforts to get the certification and who is also willing to share his knowledge.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 10:43   #20
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

Tejas: Very good initiative to make folks, who may or may not be aware of what it takes to be a good marshal, learn this art/craft or fine tune their existing know how. Will immensely help people who may have not got extensive experience in organizing/conducting events to start with. Even folks who are experienced in organizing/conducting events can learn a thing or two.

My suggestion would be to focus on knowledge & learning, rather than certification/accreditation. To give an analogy from 3 Idiots movie, focus on learning & rest will follow. Certification or no certification.

All the best
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Old 22nd March 2014, 10:51   #21
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by rahultomahawk View Post
Great initiative tejas. Knowlege will always be useful. Guys I have done two workshops by Tejas one for How to use the hilift jack and other one on winching . Both were very professionaly taken with practicals and we all learnt a lot.
I feel that one must put aside their ego and be wiling to learj with a open mind . We must be proud that we have a person in India who has put in a lot of efforts to get the certification and who is also willing to share his knowledge.
Thanks Rahul

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Tejas: Very good initiative to make folks, who may or may not be aware of what it takes to be a good marshal, learn this art/craft or fine tune their existing know how. Will immensely help people who may have not got extensive experience in organizing/conducting events to start with. Even folks who are experienced in organizing/conducting events can learn a thing or two.

My suggestion would be to focus on knowledge & learning, rather than certification/accreditation. To give an analogy from 3 Idiots movie, focus on learning & rest will follow. Certification or no certification.

All the best
Thanks Khan.

My reasoning for certification is that if i add that into the course, then people will be more serious and will concentrate and study better. That was the way i looked at it.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 11:56   #22
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

Just an update:

I spoke to a few FMSCI senior office bearers and stewards and they have confirmed that there are currently no guidelines on offroading marshals. I'm going for a meeting next week specially for this and would ask if they could see my curriculum and probably send an observer to the training program.

They said there are many times there are no guidelines with them for a particular thing and if someone else has good guidelines, they incorporate it themselves.

I will update on this after the meet.

I want to do everything the right way and am making sincere efforts for the same to promote the sport in a safe and systematic manner and hope this may settle a few doubts.
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Old 24th March 2014, 11:55   #23
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Just an update:

I spoke to a few FMSCI senior office bearers and stewards and they have confirmed that there are currently no guidelines on offroading marshals. I'm going for a meeting next week specially for this and would ask if they could see my curriculum and probably send an observer to the training program.

They said there are many times there are no guidelines with them for a particular thing and if someone else has good guidelines, they incorporate it themselves.
Superb, With the new team in FMSCI, those guys are open for new ideas

Great going Tejas, am sure they will incorporate a lot of material from your handbook and experience. Nothing beats an accredited event and the pleasure of knowing you played a major role in getting off-roading accredited under FMSCI.

On a lighter note Wondering how can FMSCI send in stewards to monitor a permitted Off-roading event without any specified guidelines

All the very best buddy
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Old 26th March 2014, 13:28   #24
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

I understand any learning is good learning but will this actually help???

May be a person who has never done offroad will attend the training and know how things works but will never know what actually happens on field. This might put the so called Marshall in danger along with the participants.

Offroad is a sport which is well learnt when on field and with practical knowledge.

an event organizer or a group will entertain a person will this certificate?? I dont think so.

A marshal is always picked up looking at his past experience and his knowledge about the vehicles and mainly offroading skills.

This is like a flight attendant getting trained on first aid. Their skill will only be used when there is no other alternative.

being in this sport from last 10 years i have seen people learning more things on field compared to a book learning.

More of Offroad and more of practical situations will make a person learn the real scenarios.
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Old 26th March 2014, 13:42   #25
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Originally Posted by pdev29 View Post
I understand any learning is good learning but will this actually help???

May be a person who has never done offroad will attend the training and know how things works but will never know what actually happens on field. This might put the so called Marshall in danger along with the participants.

Offroad is a sport which is well learnt when on field and with practical knowledge.

an event organizer or a group will entertain a person will this certificate?? I dont think so.

A marshal is always picked up looking at his past experience and his knowledge about the vehicles and mainly offroading skills.

This is like a flight attendant getting trained on first aid. Their skill will only be used when there is no other alternative.

being in this sport from last 10 years i have seen people learning more things on field compared to a book learning.

More of Offroad and more of practical situations will make a person learn the real scenarios.
Hi Devang,

How are you? Been a long time.

You are right in your questions. Practical knowledge is the best guide.

Our marshals are being trained in this basic level to understand the following:
- what are his duties on the field
- how to identify unsafe practices
- how to perform very basic first aid
- etc

These marshals currently are not trained in major recoveries, spotting, etc.

This is the beginning, as with F1, junior marshals are always paired with senior guys to understand the sport and so they will progress. The same how we do when a new driver joins our offroad expedition. One of us sits and coaches them till he is confident.

As we progress with the level of training, our inclusion criteria will also go up.

I am meeting the FMSCI marshals over the weekend and after that will outline here the points that will be taught.
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Old 26th March 2014, 14:11   #26
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

Tejas,

I am doing good. Thanks for asking.

is there any pre-enrollment check done for the participants?? Imagine a person getting trained on being a Marshal who has never sat in a Jeep. Imagine a guy who doesnt know on what obstacle you need to crawl and on which one to floor it to metal.

somehow I feel its not a something which anyone and everyone can be trained on. Every Marshal requires deep knowledge about that sport and toys which are involved.

This sport is well learnt on the field than a closed room sessions.
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Old 26th March 2014, 14:31   #27
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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Tejas,

I am doing good. Thanks for asking.

is there any pre-enrollment check done for the participants?? Imagine a person getting trained on being a Marshal who has never sat in a Jeep. Imagine a guy who doesnt know on what obstacle you need to crawl and on which one to floor it to metal.

somehow I feel its not a something which anyone and everyone can be trained on. Every Marshal requires deep knowledge about that sport and toys which are involved.

This sport is well learnt on the field than a closed room sessions.
Well said. Therefore we have exams and only those guys would clear who understand. We also have field training and not only classroom sessions. As of now we have offroaders who have enrolled in this course.

And your suggestion is worth it's weight in gold, I'll update any queries asking if they have offroad experience and involve them. Now if after years of offroading he is still not able to understand when to crawl or not then god help him. But very good suggestion! Thanks.
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Old 26th March 2014, 14:51   #28
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This kind of training can happen only for the guys within your group and get them to next level. Personally speaking for any Extreme Offroaders event I will prefer guys from the group instead of someone with a certificate. It's a different comfort level, trust and dependability.

Again knowledge from book may differ than real life story. An experienced Offroader will make a better marshal than just a trained marshal with less experience.

I personally feel marshals are picked up considering their comfort level with the O team, their skills, dependability, knowledge.

On what grounds one should judge that a person is qualified to be a marshal? It's because he has ceritifacte or he is trained? I think every organisers knows their best men and team. They don't go by the books.. It's by experience.

Anyways best of luck.
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Old 26th March 2014, 14:55   #29
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

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This kind of training can happen only for the guys within your group and get them to next level. Personally speaking for any Extreme Offroaders event I will prefer guys from the group instead of someone with a certificate. It's a different comfort level, trust and dependability.

Again knowledge from book may differ than real life story. An experienced Offroader will make a better marshal than just a trained marshal with less experience.

I personally feel marshals are picked up considering their comfort level with the O team, their skills, dependability, knowledge.

On what grounds one should judge that a person is qualified to be a marshal? It's because he has ceritifacte or he is trained? I think every organisers knows their best men and team. They don't go by the books.. It's by experience.

Anyways best of luck.
Yes, personal comfort, etc are very important. What if someone from your group was trained also? Would be better na?

The guys coming to participate also are from various groups who organise events and they are coming to sharpen their skills.

Thanks for the wishes.
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Old 27th March 2014, 10:12   #30
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Default Re: Offroad Marshal Training Course - Level 1 (Junior)

This is a fantastic initiative. Too bad I am going to miss the opportunity but I wish this turns out to be a big success so that I can enroll in the next batch. Structured learning always helps!

Off topic 1 (actually this is probably THE topic in this thread!): The mud slinging, questioning and doubting is a little disappointing especially when it is coming from experienced members. Won't a "wait and watch" approach be more appropriate than a "shoot to kill" one? I know nothing about off-roading practically but I do find it extremely interesting and entertaining. Had been to an off-roading event with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. Guess what happened? Nobody was in a mood to answer my questions because the "experts" were always busy! Heck I didn't even understand half the terms they were saying. Now for a guy like me (who has limited time and therefore would like to get maximum benefit out of it) what is the option? Keep running behind these people hoping that they will help me learn or enroll in a structured program? The latter any day for me!

Off topic 2: I see many posts in the technical section of TBHP that refer to engineering books, videos, classroom learning etc. I think those need to be deleted. Because going by the arguments in this thread knowledge from books is irrelevant and useless. In the employability of technical graduates thread people keep on harping about the need of having the right mix of technical (read textbook) and practical (on-field) knowledge tested by a thorough examination. And now when somebody is trying to do precisely that all canons are let loose. See the irony?

I have heard in many business forums / conclaves that : In India, the moment you start planning a new concept / initiative you are pushed 10 steps back by the framework in this country. After reading this thread I can see why people say that.

Thanks! Apologies for the rant and good luck to Offroad Junkies for this program.
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