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Old 9th July 2014, 18:10   #16
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Come here to Gurgaon I will get your Torsion bar adjusted at the ASC RR Auto to perfection. Should be a maximum of 1 Hr job.

There are good mechanics here and with all this off roading from NIOC Jeepers and at least three other groups locally, these guys have become kind of Thar specialists.
Dear Desertfox,
Thank you so much for your kind help.
It definitely sounds like a viable plan, will let you know asa Iím able to plan a trip.

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Now A Thar Lounge is being created for monthly offline meetings and a specialist Thar modification shop is to be created by october 14.
Wow this sounds very interesting, already looking forward to it.

Thanks
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Old 10th July 2014, 09:07   #17
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

For local help in Meerut for small jobs meet up with Prashant Bishnoi, he knows the local Mahindra delaler well and for small mods he has access to a workshop just behind the Abu lane.

I will send you his number. His Thar is abused off road almost every weekend and so far has seemed to survive except for a loose tail type I saw on my last visit to Meerut a few weeks ago!

Last edited by desertfox : 10th July 2014 at 09:08.
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Old 11th July 2014, 06:58   #18
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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For local help in Meerut for small jobs meet up with Prashant Bishnoi, he knows the local Mahindra delaler well and for small mods he has access to a workshop just behind the Abu lane.

I will send you his number.
Dear Desertfox,

Thanx man.

Since Iím a still a Newbie you wont be able to PM me :(
Kindly drop me an email at namojain@aol.com.

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I saw on my last visit to Meerut a few weeks ago!
Man please inform in advance whenever you are visiting next, will definitely meet up.
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Old 16th July 2014, 17:27   #19
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Well, this most certainly is a manufacturing defect, which raises serious questions about Mahindra Quality Control.
Donít know if the entire assembly is ISUZU or its just the transfer case.
Dear NamoJain - to answer your question above, neither the transmission nor the transfer case are of ISUZU, they are as follows:

Transmission: it is a derivative of the Peugeot BA10 design, originally used in Peugeot for their J9 vans from 1979, brought to India in 1981, adapted for use in MM540 platform for 5 speed applications from 1982. It was then adapted for use in Armada Grand from 2001, then in Scorpio from 2002, it is still continuing in the range of M&M vehicles including Thar to-date.

Transfer Case: this is the mechanical shift Borg Warner design transfer case, manufactured in Pune by Divgi Warner.

ISUZU sticker is still continuing on the transfer case as the same transfer case was earlier used in MM5404WD petrol vehicles, which also had the ISUZU engine adapted from the Contessa car mounted in it, so the terminology continues. The adaptation was made with both transmissions, KMT90 4 speed and BA10 5 speed.

Like "Isuzu", there are words like "Zimbabwe / Ethipoia / Austraila" etc. Most of these terminologies emerge as manufacturing jargons and is not supposed to be understood by anybody besides a small group of people inside the company. I wanted to clear your misconception, hence this reply! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 16th July 2014, 17:58   #20
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

That sure is a useful bit of information I thought since very little number of transfer cases are required just about 700 to 800 a month it was imported from Isuzu.

So this MM 540 Petrol used to come with an 1800 CC ISUZU Gasolene engine ( 4 Cyl ) ?
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Old 16th July 2014, 20:31   #21
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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..So this MM 540 Petrol used to come with an 1800 CC ISUZU Gasolene engine ( 4 Cyl ) ?
Yes sir and it was the mpfi version. Looks like you have not come across this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...8l-petrol.html (PICS : The rare MM550. NGCS, 4WD & 1.8L PETROL)
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Old 18th July 2014, 20:41   #22
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear NamoJain - to answer your question above, neither the transmission nor the transfer case are of ISUZU, they are as follows:

Transmission: it is a derivative of the Peugeot BA10 design, originally used in Peugeot for their J9 vans from 1979, brought to India in 1981, adapted for use in MM540 platform for 5 speed applications from 1982. It was then adapted for use in Armada Grand from 2001, then in Scorpio from 2002, it is still continuing in the range of M&M vehicles including Thar to-date.

Transfer Case: this is the mechanical shift Borg Warner design transfer case, manufactured in Pune by Divgi Warner.

ISUZU sticker is still continuing on the transfer case as the same transfer case was earlier used in MM5404WD petrol vehicles, which also had the ISUZU engine adapted from the Contessa car mounted in it, so the terminology continues. The adaptation was made with both transmissions, KMT90 4 speed and BA10 5 speed.

Like "Isuzu", there are words like "Zimbabwe / Ethipoia / Austraila" etc. Most of these terminologies emerge as manufacturing jargons and is not supposed to be understood by anybody besides a small group of people inside the company. I wanted to clear your misconception, hence this reply! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Mr. Dhabhar,

Thankyou Sir for that useful info on the pedigree of the transmission and the transfer case. The ISUZU sticker is quite deceiving.

Btw Sir, had meant to ask you Ė what according to you had snapped the shaft in my jeep?

Thankyou.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 10:34   #23
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Mr. Dhabhar - what according to you had snapped the shaft in my jeep?
Dear NamoJain - Hahaha, this I cannot answer on an open forum for obvious reasons! . Anyways, don't worry, this is a stray case. If you are hell bent on getting the answer, show the photographs to a metallurgist. The photographs are crystal clear, he will tell you in one minute.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 22nd July 2014, 17:56   #24
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Default re: Gearbox failure in a 10-day old Mahindra Thar

A poor example of quality control and metal forging ?
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Old 22nd July 2014, 18:12   #25
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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If you are hell bent on getting the answer, show the photographs to a metallurgist. The photographs are crystal clear, he will tell you in one minute.

My guess is that the failed shaft had not undergone the heat treatment process (for strengthening) as per the process called in the drawings. Could be a stray one that escaped the process during manufacturing ! A hardness check should reveal this.

However , the problem should have shown up at the QC checks, assuming they check every piece for hardness, which they should, considering the importance of the component.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 09:49   #26
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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My guess is that the failed shaft had not undergone the heat treatment process (for strengthening) as per the process called in the drawings. Could be a stray one that escaped the process during manufacturing ! A hardness check should reveal this.

However , the problem should have shown up at the QC checks, assuming they check every piece for hardness, which they should, considering the importance of the component.
Dear Mooza - this is not the reason for failure. If it was, it would not have lasted for 120 kms also.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 23rd July 2014, 12:20   #27
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Default re: Gearbox failure in a 10-day old Mahindra Thar

Kudos to M&M for replacing the entire Gearbox, no questions asked.

But, it is very sad that the immense pride of owning a new vehicle had to be damaged in such a bad way!

On a side note, if I were an owner, I would be incredulous as to the long term reliability of the replacement unit as well, knowing that the implementation of the Combination of the following 3 capabilities (PRODUCT CLARITY, VEHICLE INTEGRATION, VEHICLE EVALUATION-"Vbar-max" ) has failed so miserably! I would wonder what short-cuts are regularly taken!

Last edited by roy_libran : 23rd July 2014 at 12:27.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 13:50   #28
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Default re: Gearbox failure in a 10-day old Mahindra Thar

Kudos to M&M for the replacement and very happy to see a Indian company deal so maturely and own up for its short fall.

Matter of immense pride that the company has accepted the complete responsibility and instead of repairing replaced the entire gear box.

A rare happy ending!!
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Old 23rd July 2014, 14:42   #29
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear NamoJain - Hahaha, this I cannot answer on an open forum for obvious reasons! . Anyways, don't worry, this is a stray case. If you are hell bent on getting the answer, show the photographs to a metallurgist. The photographs are crystal clear, he will tell you in one minute.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Mr. Dhabhar,

Thanx for Ďnotí answering the question

Sir, had Mahindra not replaced the entire box in the first go, I Would have certainly insisted upon a metallurgy test of the shaft.


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Originally Posted by mooza View Post
My guess is that the failed shaft had not undergone the heat treatment process (for strengthening) as per the process called in the drawings. Could be a stray one that escaped the process during manufacturing ! A hardness check should reveal this.
Actually, even I was of the impression that this was an error at the time of forging and thatís why it snapped so early at 270* kms.

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Dear Mooza - this is not the reason for failure. If it was, it would not have lasted for 120 kms also.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Now clearly BD doesnít agree to this logic, so I think that raises questions about the quality of the raw material being used by the manufacturer.

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However , the problem should have shown up at the QC checks, assuming they check every piece for hardness, which they should, considering the importance of the component.
Yes thatís exactly the point, ĎCONSIDERING THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COMPONENTí how could they be SOO SLOPPY during the QCÖ??
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Old 23rd July 2014, 15:07   #30
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Default re: Gearbox failure in a 10-day old Mahindra Thar

Ok. Somewhere else on a forum a brand new Thar resorts to self destruction by burning itself up. Now a Thar breaks a gearbox shaft. I am sorry to say this, but the issues for the Thar are skin deep and are not just limited to the sloppy canopy zippers or the overall poor fit and finish for the interiors. An awesome jeep ruined by unfortunate lack of enthusiasm from its makers. I hope Mahindra doesnt do what Yamaha did to the RD 350.....
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