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Old 5th January 2015, 16:37   #1
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Default Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

Hello everybody

I own a 2010 Tata Safari 4x4 which has been with me through thick and thin over 85000 kms. The 4 wheel drive was used heartily in the first couple of years but hardly so of late.
In the last couple of years, I have been facing a wierd problem where 4H / 4L lights on the console just do not come on as part of the startup lights when I turn the key on in the ignition and then when I try to move the knob from 2h to 2l / 4l the light just stays dead and needless to say, the 4wd is not engaged.

I never faced this issue for the first few years with the beast. But this has become a recurring problem off late which two authorized dealers have been unable to fix. Everytime I face the issue I take it to the workshop (Concorde / Aadya in Bangalore) and they reconnect the connectors and it works for sometime. Aadya has changed the system wiring twice. But it always follows the same pattern. I get the car out of the workshop and in a day or two, the lights stop coming on. So, it is clear that the dealers are also not sure of what the root issue is.

A couple of threads in Team-Bhp suggested that splashing of water on the underbody might cause malfunction in the transfer case. But I am reasonably confident that cannot be the case with me. There have been instances where I have had the lights fixed in the service center, driven the car home (in bone dry conditions, without turning the 4wd on), parked it and coming back next morning to see the issue occuring again. Surely, 4wd could not be such a delicate component that could stop working with a light shake right?
And again in the initial few years of the car, I have driven in slushy conditions and not faced this issue.

At the moment, I am not sure of what to do about this issue. I would really appreciate any pointers anyone might have on how to troubleshoot this issue and identify the root cause.
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Old 6th January 2015, 12:37   #2
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Default re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Originally Posted by nambiarshreyas View Post
At the moment, I am not sure of what to do about this issue. I would really appreciate any pointers anyone might have on how to troubleshoot this issue and identify the root cause.
Hi Shreyas,

The Safari uses a Borg Warner T-Case Electric Shift, similar to the Bolero 4WD & Safari 4WD.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...m-problem.html (Bolero 4x4 - ECM Problem)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...-vehicles.html (Service Manual: Borg Warner 45 series EDIT: Not for Indian vehicles)

The Electric Shifter uses an electric motor to rotate the 4WD engagement cog.

Open the shifter cover check, and service the electric motor.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 6th January 2015, 15:23   #3
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Default re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

You could also message Gajanan Chitale via Facebook. He works for the Indian company that makes the Borg Warner Transfer Cases. Based out of Pune I think.

https://www.facebook.com/gajanan.chitale?fref=nf

I have a Safari 4wd and few years back when the transfer mechanism stopped working, I had it opened and serviced with my electrician. Worked for me. Should try what Arka recommended.

Cheers,
Adi
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Old 6th January 2015, 15:50   #4
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Default re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

Dear nambiarshreyas - hello to you. First of all, please inform whether the issue is of the vehicle actually not going into 4WDHI and 4WDLO or is it just the indicators that do not work. Also, please PM me your contact number, I'll tell Gajanan Chitale to contact you. His workplace is 1km away from where I work.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 6th January 2015, 16:58   #5
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Default re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Originally Posted by nambiarshreyas View Post
Hello everybody
Ok, so when you move ignition key to on, both 4H and 4L lights must come on momentarily.
If they do not, it means, the system is not getting power.

When you engage from 2H to 4H, the 4H light should light up.
If it does not, it means that the system is not getting current.

This could be due to lose connectors, or faulty connectors somewhere in the ignition switch.

When this happens next time, I suggest first check for error code.
The procedure to do this is simple.

Under your drivers seat there is a wire with a socket to which a clamp can be fitted.

Take a 3W bulb(kind used for instrument clusters), connect one end to this wire, and other end to the +ve of the battery.

The bulb will flash in a certain sequence, if there is an error code.

IF the problem is of the system not getting current, then its a connection problem.
Somewhere there is a loose wire. Or somewhere, earth connection could be causing problems. The only way to diagnose it is to inspect all the wiring from battery to fuse to the ECU of the transfer case.

Unfortunately finding a person capable of doing this in a Tata Service center is like finding snowfall in Chennai.

You have to escalate your problem. Give "0". Raise a hue and cry.
Tata will then send somebody from their ERC team, or tech team. Every city has a technical head engineer, who comes whenever there is a problem which cannot be fixed.

This guy can actually diagnose the entire wiring harness. Many times this can be due faulty earth connection.

If you were in Pune, you could have gotten help directly from digvi Warner. But anyways, I am giving you facebook contact details of Mr Gajanan Chitale.
https://www.facebook.com/gajanan.chitale?fref=ts

But please be aware, he is with Digvi Warner, and if the problem is in Digvi system, he will be able to help. However, if problem is with general vehicle wiring which gives power to the 4x4 system, then its a Tata end problem.

Normally, Warner system gets problem in the following areas
1. Speed sensor
2. Motor
3. Switch

ECU problem is rare.

I suspect its a wiring problem.
Since you are not facing any service light or other electrical errors in your vehicle, this means that the problem may be limited to the wiring loom which feeds the 4x4 ECU.

That said, as Behram said, check whether 4WD is getting engaged. The way to do this is to enage 4H and then drive the car in circular motion on hard surface. It will feel like wheels are getting locked. If not, it means 4WD is not getting enaged. But i suspects the fault is not in indicator lights, as sometimes they do work.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 6th January 2015 at 17:23.
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Old 6th January 2015, 17:51   #6
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Default re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

Thank you for the helpful replies. I certainly have a few things to try out now.

Just to clarify, my issue is that the 4wd system is not powering up, which is why the 4h / 4l lights do not come on when I turn on the ignition key. The 4wd is not getting engaged as well. In happier times, when 4wd would engage, I could march the vehicle ahead from standstill in 4th gear by slotting into 4L. This does not happen when the lights dont come on which tells me that the 4wd is also not getting engaged when the lights dont light up on the console.

Every time this happens, I take it to the service center and they reconnect the connectors and couple of times they have changed the wiring of the system as well. All is well for a couple of days and then we are back to square one with the system not powering up.

Mr. Dhabhar, thank you for offering to reach out to Mr. Chitale. I am unable to PM you but my number is 9845371101. Alternately, if you could PM me Mr. Chitale's number I will reach out to him.

As per tsk1979's advice, let me now try and establish if the fault lies in the wiring loom or the Warner system.
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Old 6th January 2015, 18:28   #7
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Default Re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Originally Posted by nambiarshreyas View Post

Mr. Dhabhar, thank you for offering to reach out to Mr. Chitale. I am unable to PM you but my number is 9845371101. Alternately, if you could PM me Mr. Chitale's number I will reach out to him.

As per tsk1979's advice, let me now try and establish if the fault lies in the wiring loom or the Warner system.
Mr Chitale knows about your problem. Please message him on facebook. You can get in touch (I gave link in my post)
That said, I have a question. Has the fuse box of your vehicle(near your right knee on drivers seat) ever been opened?
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Old 6th January 2015, 21:06   #8
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Default Re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Mr Chitale knows about your problem. Please message him on facebook.
Sure thing tsk1979. I am taking the vehicle to the service centre again tomorrow. Will ping him with the details. Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Has the fuse box of your vehicle(near your right knee on drivers seat) ever been opened?
Not sure if the service center has opened it. I have opened it a couple of times to check on the fuses, once when I suddenly lost power on the highway and more recently to check on the follow me home lights.
Could this be related?
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Old 6th January 2015, 21:57   #9
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Default Re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Not sure if the service center has opened it. I have opened it a couple of times to check on the fuses, once when I suddenly lost power on the highway and more recently to check on the follow me home lights.
Could this be related?
Ok, now this gets interesting. You have lost power on the highway? If so, inspect your battery negative connection with body. IS it okay? There is some Earthing problem in your vehicle, if you are facing power loss issues etc.,
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Old 6th January 2015, 22:28   #10
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Default Re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

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Ok, now this gets interesting. You have lost power on the highway? If so, inspect your battery negative connection with body.
Sorry should probably have been clearer. The power loss was because of a water pump failure which caused the engine to go kaput when it overheated and slow down to a crawl.
I opened the fuse box during my initial diagnosis on the road only to check if any of the fuses had been fried but once I got it to the mech we figured out it was a water pump issue.
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Old 10th January 2015, 12:00   #11
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Default Re: Tata Safari: Unable to engage 4x4

Just an update on the issue of 4x4 not powering up on my safari. The ECM connectors seemed to be the culprit. they have been cleaned out and fitted back and touchwood, seem to be working good for so far.

Mr.Chitale has been a big help on troubleshooting this. Thanks a ton. Beer on me next time I am in Pune

Thanks everyone for your valuable inputs, suggestions and time. Hopefully this will see the last of this pesky recurrence.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 23:20   #12
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Default Tata TL 4x4 Borg Warner Transfer ECU

Dear all,

This is my first post, so please be kind.

Let me introduce myself, My name is Ben, and I live in South West England, and I have a rare vehicle (over here anyway), it's a 2005 TATA TL 4x4. Nobody really cares much for these vehicles over here, and most of them are being scrapped. The dealer network has faded away, and spare parts are difficult to get.

I have been trying to get my Tata in good working order now for a few months, but one of the final jobs is to repair the 4wd system. The switch on the dashboard was dead and I had no lights on the instrument cluster.

I found that somebody had pulled the fuse out supplying power to the ECU, which I replaced and was greeted by a 'pop' sound and smell of burning electronics.

The ECU was taken out and cover removed to find one burned component, labelled D1. Does anybody know what this device is? It's a 3 legged device, TO220 package. The plastic casing is split and burned, so I cannot read what it originally said. I can just barely make out '3040', so the device is maybe a MUR3040, but I cannot be certain.

If anybody knows what device D1 should be or if they have a circuit diagram for the ECU, that would be great. I would like to try to repair this ECU rather than buy a new one.

The part number on my ECU is 44-50-000-017-F and TATA number is 2704 5420 9906

Thanks,

Ben
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Old 23rd January 2015, 14:22   #13
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Default Re: Tata TL 4x4 Borg Warner Transfer ECU

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Does anybody know what this device is? It's a 3 legged device, TO220 package. The plastic casing is split and burned, so I cannot read what it originally said. I can just barely make out '3040 ', so the device is maybe a MUR3040, but I cannot be certain.
Hello Ben,
Please search for Mr Gajanan Chitale in facebook, He works for Digvi Warner and a very enthusiast and helpful.
He will definitely help you. In case you are unable to find him, please PM me your email ID, i will connect you with him.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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