Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th June 2011, 19:30   #1246
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,495
Thanked: 6,772 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
If the contact patch is more then resistance is more.
Agreed, but how much more? and......


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
This is without going into the effect of actual/real surface area, which off course depends on the tread pattern, and the resulting contact patch will be lesser.
Yup again! And with this actual contact area comes the lug effect also. More number of lugs per square mm = more grip in offroad?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
If I were to run a V8 Diesel, Portal Axle, Bead Lock 6" suspension lift, I would have definitely opted for a 35" Tyre, 9.00X16 NDMS is available or maybe the Trepadors.
Very honestly i also am not a fan of these heavily oversized tyres. Few of us has seen the dark and negative sides and know what all issues crop up due to very big oversize. What you have mentioned in the earlier post is just the tip of all troubles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Will a Trepador work better then NDMS, depends on who is driving
I like that reply, and add the condition of vehicle. Which kind of answers Frankie's question above ^^



Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Which will offer more resistance, for the same surface area?
I really did not understand this question ^^ You mean | vs -- ? Solve it naah please.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Also most of the guys who have fitted Trepadors have done so at my suggestion, so they won't advice you against it, same goes with the guys who have fitted 7.00X16.
He he he that is all i want to hear. Thank you.

I learned about the Treps, Horns and Creepy Crawlies from my offroading experience as a passenger, spotter, driver and sometime just a spectator along with BLR boys. Till then i was also a blind believer of NDMS from mallu land.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th June 2011 at 19:31.
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2011, 20:11   #1247
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
On offroad terrain the same 20-60% (is that so much? wow!) is giving me a huge advantage. Strain i need to put on the vehicle is very less, so assume that it is offsetting the additional strain the tyres are putting on steering and transmission.
No ASSUME please !!

The same power is used to do more work here!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
FYI am not the only 3B on trepadors and i dont think anyone has ever complained about the shortcomings that they would advice against it.
Yeah especially after paying a "good" price of the tyre

Quote:
My dream tyres are those Creepycrawlies,
LOL my dream is a chain drive like the tanks!!!

Quote:
i have driven the same vehicle with both these tyres and i definitely am not a joke of a driver when it comes to "feel" the vehicle or understanding what the vehicle is talking to me LMFAO!!
WHat is LMFAO - I comprehend LMAO but LMFAO ??

Quote:
Vs 29" wow i really have to now take a scale and thread to see how much it has made a difference. Am more worried about the diff in real life where that 1" matters.
No the diff does not matter, we can always position the wheels to avoid hitting the diff - we need to look at ADR angles!!


Quote:

EDIT: went out for a coffee and that got me thinking. Tyres are the only connection between the vehicle and the terrain and even if 20% more contact patch increase should help in real life situation. In my particular case the lesser overall dia of the tyre gives more torque also. Right? So basically am getting paisa really wasool (bang for the buck) for the couple of 1000's i spent more with Trepadors compared to NDMS. Am i wrong?
Jaggu: Basically - A stock engine is more powerful with standard tyres and the vehicle will have lesser strain on the drivetrain when compared to a fully blown engine with huge oversized tyres etc.


Did you not witness the RJ14 MM540 at Avalaconda this year struggling to do its job while the lesser "tyred" 540s managed it better? Why?

Yeah it had sexy 35 inchers!!
Attached Thumbnails
The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread-dscn0008.jpg  


Last edited by headers : 7th June 2011 at 20:30.
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2011, 20:27   #1248
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,495
Thanked: 6,772 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
No ASSUME please !!

The same power is used to do more work here!!
How much more work? Without numbers it does not make sense, i had done once taken a paper impression of 6x16 NDMS Vs 235/15 Trepadors during one of those jobless sunday afternoons and results were not that scary. So when you apply science look at it from the practical angle also.



Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Yeah especially after paying a "good" price of the tyre
Headers i know quite a few good men who would call a spade, spade even after investing a bomb on the so called spade. So dont generalize.



Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
WHat is LMFAO - I comprehend LMAO but LMFAO ??
Laughing my "frigging" rear end out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
No the diff does not matter, we can always position the wheels to avoid hitting the diff - we need to look at ADR angles!!
Have you calculated the difference in approach, departure and ramp over angles for a 1/2 inch difference in wheel height? Am really curious to know, seriously want to know coz even with Treps my CJ3B clears most of the stuff. I strongly suspect its jinxed with the high lift suspension at rear


Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Jaggu: Basically - A stock engine is more powerful with standard tyres and the vehicle will have lesser strain on the drivetrain when compared to a fully blown engine with huge oversized tyres etc.
Arre babaa i replied to Arka that am not a big fan of HUGE oversizes. The key thing is the right upsize. Same applies for cars also, for egs a personal experience with Swift anything more than 195 width kills it for the car.



Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Did you not witness the RJ14 MM540 at Avalaconda this year struggling to do its job while the lesser "tyred" 540s managed it better? Why?

Yeah it had sexy 35 inchers!!
Already clarified ^^^


Me and Arka were having fun with the NDMS Vs "Modern" tyre, why you bringing in size, power, vehicle issue into it now? We are already tired of convincing each other or not
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2011, 20:37   #1249
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Me and Arka were having fun with the NDMS Vs "Modern" tyre, why you bringing in size, power, vehicle issue into it now? We are already tired of convincing each other or not
If you guys were having fun, take it over PM and not here.

If size, power, vehicle, is not considered then why talk tyres? Does it make sense if I fit a "creepy crawler" on a bullock cart?
headers is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2011, 20:42   #1250
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,495
Thanked: 6,772 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
If you guys were having fun, take it over PM and not here.

If size, power, vehicle, is not considered then why talk tyres? Does it make sense if I fit a "creepy crawler" on a bullock cart?
Poor sense of humor? ^^

Well for starters Creepy Crawlers are not available for bullock cart wheels. Are you really trying to discuss or?

Anyways please take time to read back in detail and then hopefully you will have all your answers from the previous discussions. Thank god i dont have to worry that much about power with my stock CJ3B! All i want is willy's overdrive for speed he he he
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2011, 22:47   #1251
BHPian
 
Jassy1313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 278
Thanked: 55 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

My Baby with 32'' Maxxis BigHorn..
Attached Images
 
Jassy1313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2011, 10:26   #1252
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Yup but is the sidewall strength a big advantage in all the situations, same strength can become a weakness when terrain changes. Right?
Hi Jaggu,

In what terrain will the sidewall strength of a cross-ply tyres become a disadvantage?

Due to it design the cross ply tyres, have more strength because the Cross Plies run through out/across the casing of the tyre.

Also the Cross-Ply construction can be aired down to single digits, which can be further enhanced with bead locks or split rims.

This is the very reason that most competition off-road tyre are cross-ply/bia

BTW the Creepy Crawler is Bias Ply/Cross Ply construction

So what is left in it to be "modern"

1) Design/Tread is 1940s Vintage

2) Construction is Bias Ply

3) Compound?

Reviews - Maxxis Creepy Crawler Mud Terrain M-8090 Reviews by Offroaders.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Review Engine Powered by ReviewPost

Maxxis Creepy Crawler M-8090 Reviews

M8090 Creepy Crawler

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2011, 20:20   #1253
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

Guys there is a set of 31" Maxxis Bighorns available with someone. I had sourced two sets for me and someoe else but he upgraded to 32" and I believe there is a shortage of these tyres and the price has gone through the roof in a few months. These are available at a very reasonable price. If someone seriously wants PM me or those who have my number, call me. Not putting the price up here coz dont want to start a debate. This will not remain for more than a few days.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2011, 22:05   #1254
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,495
Thanked: 6,772 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Jaggu,

In what terrain will the sidewall strength of a cross-ply tyres become a disadvantage?
For climbing slippery rocks or for sand? isn't it better? Am not sure, i asked you a genuine question as usual you ask a question back :(



Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Due to it design the cross ply tyres, have more strength because the Cross Plies run through out/across the casing of the tyre.
=======
BTW the Creepy Crawler is Bias Ply/Cross Ply construction
I think i knew all these ^^^ but good that you shared for others.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
So what is left in it to be "modern"
Enough explanation given in all the below links about what is modern or not. I have a feeling you are assuming again that i think only radials are modern. Where do i get such write up on modern NDMS?

Reviews - Maxxis Creepy Crawler Mud Terrain M-8090 Reviews by Offroaders.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Review Engine Powered by ReviewPost

Maxxis Creepy Crawler M-8090 Reviews

M8090 Creepy Crawler



Just curious why are you now using GoodYears? Any reason in particular? <Serious here>
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 11:37   #1255
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default Re: "Modern" Tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Just curious why are you now using GoodYears? Any reason in particular? <Serious here>
Hi Jaggu,

I use 3 set of 7.50X16 Tyres depending on the terrain

1) Sandgrip Re-tread for Road.

2) Apollo Bullet for Sand & Rocky Terrain, especially TPC

3) Goodyear G90, which has replaced the 7.00X16 NDMS. for Mud Terrain OTRs

the G90 is taller and slightly broader compared to the 7.00X16 NDMS, and more suitable for my MM540, keeping in mind the gearing and ADR angles.

Infact only after buying the tyres I realised they are Radial LT, Tubeless

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 11:59   #1256
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,201
Thanked: 821 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

What is ADR angle ? Approach Departure Rampover ?

Sudarshan

Am yet been intoxicated by the fumes of NitroCellulose zzzzz
Sudarshan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 12:45   #1257
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
What is ADR angle ? Approach Departure Rampover ?

Am yet been intoxicated by the fumes of NitroCellulose zzzzz
Hi Sudarshan JEE,

You are right.

ADR Angles was introduced to Team BHP vocabulary by Spike last year around March.

What is your views on the following observations.

Thar MDI with 68Bhp MDI3200TC uses 185-80-16 (28") Tyres

Thar Crde with 107Bhp NEF 2.49Crde use 235-70-16 (29") Tyres

Both vehicles are similar weight, same family same manufacturer, then why two different tyre sizes?

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 12:57   #1258
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

Thar MDI with 68Bhp MDI3200TC uses 185-80-16 (28") Tyres

Thar Crde with 107Bhp NEF 2.49Crde use 235-70-16 (29") Tyres

Both vehicles are similar weight, same family same manufacturer, then why two different tyre sizes?

Regards,

Arka

Arka: Both use different engines running different states of tune having different suspension setup and the "bling" factors are varied. Hence the difference in tyres. Thats IMHO.

If one can use re-treads for the road and G90s offroad for same vehicle, same engine, same gearing and same driver, why not M&M for 2 different engines, different suspensions, different markets and different category? and same CMVR...

Last edited by headers : 9th June 2011 at 12:59.
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 13:07   #1259
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,201
Thanked: 821 Times
Smile re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

Both vehicles are similar weight, same family same manufacturer, then why two different tyre sizes?
Arkajee ,---is that you who is asking ? or some one else ?


You are talking about two totally different vehicles having totally different underpinnings , they may look alike or weigh same .

BUT -- Its like comparing my streched 540 ,5 door with the Land Rover I have ,they almost weigh same & share many similarities Anyway you know the difference

Sudarshan

P.S. anyway I am going to study the footprint & pressure( Per Sq Inch ) of the vehicle on that area , I think this will help choosing tyres . Thinking about the method to be used , I will soon share it .

Last edited by Sudarshan : 9th June 2011 at 13:20.
Sudarshan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2011, 14:01   #1260
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
You are talking about two totally different vehicles having totally different underpinnings , they may look alike or weigh same .

BUT -- Its like comparing my streched 540 ,5 door with the Land Rover I have ,they almost weigh same & share many similarities Anyway you know the difference
Hi Sudarshan JEE,

Shall we bring in the scorpio Crde for this comparison.

The Scorpio Crde also use 235-70-16 so does the Thar Crde?

What do you think is the reason both are using the same size tyres.

The Bolero VLX aka storm also genrates 97Bhp and similar amounts of torque but uses 215-75-15 wrt to Scorpio and Thar Crde?

The Bolero Di Turbo uses also 235-75-15 or 185-85-16

What is the Tyre difference between your 5dr MM540 and Land-Rover Series 2A.

Incidentally the Solid Axle Coil Sprung Land Rovers use 7.50X16 (OEM Military) which is same a what the army MM550XD uses.

There are many reasons, similarities and differences.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by tsk1979 : 9th June 2011 at 14:04. Reason: quote fixed
ex670c is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mumbai's Offroad Junkie goes international! Builds offroad track for Mercedes, Hong Kong GTO 4x4 Excursions 12 24th December 2015 14:01
Tubeless tyres on Steel rims RJK Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 185 18th June 2014 16:01
New Tyres and rims ... urgent bamboo Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 39 16th November 2007 20:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:51.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks