Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th March 2008, 16:02   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

OT: Experts suggest to engage the 4WD before you enter such territory and not once you are in the soup of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
As soon as the jeep used to get stuck at some point, the driver simply used to engage the 4x4 mechanism by using the other gear lever and the jeep used to lurch forward effortlessly.
I have driven the earlier gypsies and IIRC you had to get down the lock the front wheels before any of the 4L/H could be engaged and I had to use it once, but gypsy is so light that it kept on skidding sideways on that rainy day

I think that was changed in the later versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Gypsy had a mechanical transfer case, and you could shift to 4H on the fly.
for 4L you needed to stop the vehicle.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2008, 16:05   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
OT: Experts suggest to engage the 4WD before you enter such territory and not once you are in the soup of it.
Even so, imagine having to go back & forth at the mouth of such territory for 15 minutes to try & "engage" 4L

And there are times when you realize that 4H may not do the trick & you need 4L - so you're almost in the middle of it & then you again go back & forth.......Lol, I'm feeling dizzy even thinking about it
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2008, 16:27   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

I dont disagree with this, although as Dan said it should be tried only as a makeshift solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Even so, imagine having to go back & forth at the mouth of such territory for 15 minutes to try & "engage" 4L

And there are times when you realize that 4H may not do the trick & you need 4L - so you're almost in the middle of it & then you again go back & forth.......Lol, I'm feeling dizzy even thinking about it
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2008, 16:31   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,818
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
Based on that premise, a 4x4 should be functional in an emergency. You don't require it for day-to-day running. If the vehicle is stuck and your 4x4 mechanism, whether manual or on-the-fly, requires moving forward or backward to engage, then it is of no use. I bloody well get it towed for all that it matters.

My 2 cents..
Invaluable 2 cents, Guruji!

I agree - if it isnt available in an emergency, it is decorative.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2008, 18:55   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 643 Times
Default

OK an update. Today I went to the service sentre. Over there, we removed the motor of the transfer case, as suggested by Ignazio. A very simple and straightforward procedure. The finger of the transfer case shift was exposed.
I then manually shifted to 4H and moved the car. Then manually shifted to 4L and moved the car. Both times it worked just fine. Thus ruled out a defective transfer case.
Then reconnected the connecter on the exposed motor and put 4H on the swith. The motor moved to its correct location. However it stayed in the same place even when I shifted to 4L.
After that we checked all the wires for continuity and ruled out any problems with the wires.
Then as per the manual, we connected a wire with a 2 watt bulb, with one end connected to the ignition and the other connected to pin 22 of the borg & warner ecm. This should have made the 4WD light indicators flash in a particular manner which could have let us identify the fault from the sequence of flashes. However the 4wd indicator remained unlit.
Now a report has been sent to TATA motors, who will let me know what the next step is. My car is however, back with me.
Ignazio, any more suggestions please?
I did not remove the sensor cover on the motor as I don't know what to expect. Is it a straight forward removal like the motor?
Attached Thumbnails
4L light keeps flashing in Safari Dicor Edit: now fixed-20032008009.jpg  

4L light keeps flashing in Safari Dicor Edit: now fixed-20032008004.jpg  

4L light keeps flashing in Safari Dicor Edit: now fixed-20032008002.jpg  

jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2008, 22:07   #36
BHPian
 
Ignazio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Turin-Italy
Posts: 128
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Hi all,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
OK an update. Today I went to the service sentre. Over there, we removed the motor of the transfer case, as suggested by Ignazio. A very simple and straightforward procedure. The finger of the transfer case shift was exposed.
I then manually shifted to 4H and moved the car. Then manually shifted to 4L and moved the car. Both times it worked just fine. Thus ruled out a defective transfer case.
Then reconnected the connecter on the exposed motor and put 4H on the swith. The motor moved to its correct location. However it stayed in the same place even when I shifted to 4L.
After that we checked all the wires for continuity and ruled out any problems with the wires.
Then as per the manual, we connected a wire with a 2 watt bulb, with one end connected to the ignition and the other connected to pin 22 of the borg & warner ecm. This should have made the 4WD light indicators flash in a particular manner which could have let us identify the fault from the sequence of flashes. However the 4wd indicator remained unlit.
Now a report has been sent to TATA motors, who will let me know what the next step is. My car is however, back with me.
Ignazio, any more suggestions please?
I did not remove the sensor cover on the motor as I don't know what to expect. Is it a straight forward removal like the motor?
Well done mate! I told you it is easy!
Ok, we now know that it can only be a faulty motor or a faulty ecm. On average, ecm is not likely to be responsible of the problem.
Have a cup of tea, sit on a table, take your patience and open the motor. You likely will find a piece of plastic broken, take some pictures (well done for the first ones!) and show us. I think, that once opened you can find the trouble.
Ideally will be to have another equal motor to be tested before opening yours... Any friends with Safari, Sumo or TL 4x4?
Ask meanwhile of what parts and at what price are available at TATA. Maybe just worth to replace the faulty motor...
Hope this help!
Ciao Ciao
cheers:

Ignazio
Ignazio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 03:57   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,781
Thanked: 694 Times
Default And which?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
OK an update. Today I went to the service sentre. Over there, we removed the motor of the transfer case, as suggested by Ignazio. A very simple and straightforward procedure. The finger of the transfer case shift was exposed.
I then manually shifted to 4H and moved the car. Then manually shifted to 4L and moved the car. Both times it worked just fine. Thus ruled out a defective transfer case.
Then reconnected the connecter on the exposed motor and put 4H on the swith. The motor moved to its correct location. However it stayed in the same place even when I shifted to 4L.
After that we checked all the wires for continuity and ruled out any problems with the wires.
Then as per the manual, we connected a wire with a 2 watt bulb, with one end connected to the ignition and the other connected to pin 22 of the borg & warner ecm. This should have made the 4WD light indicators flash in a particular manner which could have let us identify the fault from the sequence of flashes. However the 4wd indicator remained unlit.
Now a report has been sent to TATA motors, who will let me know what the next step is. My car is however, back with me.
Ignazio, any more suggestions please?
I did not remove the sensor cover on the motor as I don't know what to expect. Is it a straight forward removal like the motor?
And which would all you "experts" like to try first, this or simply backing up and going forward?
DirtyDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 10:55   #38
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 911 Times
Default

Perhaps of interest to some, the procedure of reversing and moving forward was recommended by Toyota on their Landcruiser GXR (which I had) to disengage free wheeling hubs. It was not for disengaging four wheel drive. That you did purely by shifting into 2 wd

After a session of 4 wd even when you shifted out of 4 wd the front axles spun along with the hub creating unnecessary drag (consume more fuel)

After you shift out of 4wd you had to stop, reverse a few meters and then move forward. As you did that you heard a clicking sound disengaging the front hubs/axles rendering the vehicle pure 2 wd

Just some info
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 11:19   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default

Best thing to do is to wait for TATA motors to get back to you. If the ECm is faulty let them get it replaced under warranty. It costs a bomb beyond warranty. What ever please donot open it on your own. Same goes with the motor. You can learn every bit of it at the dealers point while getting opened. Electric shift trnasfer cases have such problems and specially so with TATA. Keep in touch with TATA's local area office.

best regards
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 12:25   #40
Distinguished - BHPian
 
FlyingSpur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 3,937
Thanked: 1,331 Times
Default

The car begs you to take it off-road? :-)
FlyingSpur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 14:23   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,818
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Out of interest, have you checked the connections to the Transfer Case ECM? You have 2 ECMs on the 4x4s, one regular ECM that is found on all Safari's (under one of the seats) and the other for the 4x4 (under the other seat). I cannot remember which one is under the driver's seat and which one under the passenger seat, but it may be possible that one of the connectors has been dislodged.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 15:11   #42
BHPian
 
Ignazio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Turin-Italy
Posts: 128
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Hi all
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Perhaps of interest to some, the procedure of reversing and moving forward was recommended by Toyota on their Landcruiser GXR (which I had) to disengage free wheeling hubs. It was not for disengaging four wheel drive. That you did purely by shifting into 2 wd

After a session of 4 wd even when you shifted out of 4 wd the front axles spun along with the hub creating unnecessary drag (consume more fuel)

After you shift out of 4wd you had to stop, reverse a few meters and then move forward. As you did that you heard a clicking sound disengaging the front hubs/axles rendering the vehicle pure 2 wd

Just some info
Same is for the Tata vehicles equipped with automatic free wheel hub...
Also, if you are in danger situation and need 4wd in reversing, they disengage causing a trouble!
That is why if you are going offroad, for business or fun it is always better to have permanent lock hubs, or manual lock/unlock. This will avoid any reverse engage disengage problem!
Ciao Ciao!
cheers:

Ignazio
Ignazio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2008, 17:10   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 643 Times
Default

Yup, checked the ecm. The 4X4 ecm is under the drivers seat.
jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2008, 17:08   #44
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 643 Times
Default FIXED! Yipee Yay

Guys, just an update to let you know that the problem has been fixed.
The culprit was a small humble safety switch fitted to the clutch pedal (much like the brake light switch)
I got a call from TATA Pune from an engineer who advised me to check the switch. I removed the switch connector, shorted it and voila, my 4L is back in action. Now all I need to do is order the switch. Costs all of Rs 42/-!!!!!!
Mods please edit title, to "Now fixed".

Last edited by jyobeb : 22nd March 2008 at 17:09.
jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2008, 17:20   #45
BHPian
 
Ignazio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Turin-Italy
Posts: 128
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Bravo Bravo!!!
Well done mate!
Ciao ciao
cheers:

Ignazio
Ignazio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Maruti Wagon-R F10D: Beyond 10 Years & 232,000 kms paragsachania Long-Term Ownership Reviews 380 8th June 2017 19:27
Swift DZire 2009 Immobiliser Lock Light Flashing vigsom Technical Stuff 7 10th June 2012 22:52
Spotted : Black Subaru WRX StI. EDIT : Crashed and Now Fixed & Painted Orange varun_patra Super-Cars & Imports in India 321 8th July 2011 22:58
What is the red light flashing on alarm switch on Swift? NVI2112 Technical Stuff 4 19th May 2010 12:39
Tata Safari Dicor LX 4 X 2 or Safari Dicor EX 4 x 2 Digitalmafia SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 55 1st June 2009 17:31


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks