Diff-Locks vs LSD

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Unfortunately there is a very limited number of lockers available for Mahindra jeeps since we have the 10 spline inner axle. The only ones that I have found are the the Auburn LSD, which I am running in my red 340 and a Lock Rite full locker..

Really? I thought Mahindra's came with 19 spline? Arka, any thoughts?

I was just recalling a thread started by Ignazio about his Tata TL 4x4 and he mentioned that he was going to install the Auburn's Electronically Controlled Traction Enhancing Differential (ECTED) - Limited Slip Locking Differential.

It's essentially and LSD which can convert to a diff lock by just clicking a switch. i.e electronic, as opposed to hydraulic, mechanical or pneumatic. I haven't read too much into it, but seems like a good options since you get the benefit of an LSD and a selectable Locker without having to install compressors and mechanical linkages. Seems like you only need to wire the switch which is probably a lot easier to do.

ECTED - Limited Slip Locking Differential - 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

Leading Manufacturer of Traction Enchancing Differentials & Planetary Drives - Auburn Gear

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Really? I thought Mahindra's came with 19 spline? Arka, any thoughts?

I was just recalling a thread started by Ignazio about his Tata TL 4x4 and he mentioned that he was going to install the Auburn's Electronically Controlled Traction Enhancing Differential (ECTED) - Limited Slip Locking Differential.

It's essentially and LSD which can convert to a diff lock by just clicking a switch. i.e electronic, as opposed to hydraulic, mechanical or pneumatic. I haven't read too much into it, but seems like a good options since you get the benefit of an LSD and a selectable Locker without having to install compressors and mechanical linkages. Seems like you only need to wire the switch which is probably a lot easier to do.



ECTED - Limited Slip Locking Differential - 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

Leading Manufacturer of Traction Enchancing Differentials & Planetary Drives - Auburn Gear

Oops, you are right the Dana 44 uses a 19 spline on the inside.

Yes the ECTED and the Detroit Electrac are really nice units that give you LSD and full lock capability. But they only come in 30 spline. And are over a $1000. You would have to get custom made axles to go along with this locker. Custom axles run about $700 for a pair in the rear, and over a $1000 for the front.

I actually almost did this a couple of years back, but decided against the custom axles, because if one broke here in India, there would be no chance of a repair for months. This would be really bad if it happened halfway to Leh! I went with the Auburn LSD p/n 5420111 and they make a big difference in sand & mud.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Yes the ECTED and the Detroit Electrac are really nice units that give you LSD and full lock capability. But they only come in 30 spline. And are over a $1000. You would have to get custom made axles to go along with this locker. Custom axles run about $700 for a pair in the rear, and over a $1000 for the front.

You are right, they make 30 spline. The Tata Dana 44 must be 30 spline then, since ignazio was planning to install in his Tata TL 4x4.

Originally Posted by RedMM340

I went with the Auburn LSD p/n 5420111 and they make a big difference in sand & mud.

5420111 is for axle ratios 3.92:1 & Up. Do you have the stock 4.88 final drive ratio on your classic? I am doing a DI Turbo engine conversion so am converting the differentials to 11/47 (4.27), so I guess I can go with the same one as you.

For those who are planning to install on the newer Turbo DI engined vehicles, I think they changed the final drive ration to 3.73 so you will need part number 5420112. I don't know when Mahindra switched to 3.73 from 4.27 for the DI range so may want to check your specific vehicle before ordering.

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

5420111 is for axle ratios 3.92:1 & Up. Do you have the stock 4.88 final drive ratio on your classic? I am doing a DI Turbo engine conversion so am converting the differentials to 11/47 (4.27), so I guess I can go with the same one as you.

First of all my red jeep is NOT a Classic (no offense to GTO and other Classic owners). My jeep is the CL340 which is much closer to the original CJ3B. It came with 5.38:1 gearing, which is really good for off roading and acceleration.

I am currently running 4.27:1 which is better suited to the higher power of the current 2.6 turbo engine, and give more relaxed freeway cruising. With 30" tires, I max out at 125kph. Sometimes I wish that I could go to a 3.73 ratio.

The DI turbo has a lot of torque, so you may want to go to a lower r&p ratio if you run stock size tires and want relaxed cruising. But if you are going to run oversize tires maybe a 4.27 will work. It just all depends on your type of driving, tire size, etc.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

The DI turbo has a lot of torque, so you may want to go to a lower r&p ratio if you run stock size tires and want relaxed cruising. But if you are going to run oversize tires maybe a 4.27 will work. It just all depends on your type of driving, tire size, etc.

The stock MM540 tire 6.00X16 I think is about 27 inches. I was considering the 3.73 ratio, but I have 235/70/16 tires with are about 29 inches. In addition, I am also putting an NGT520 5-Speed Tranny which has an overdrive so I am hoping that 4.27 would be a good balance between top end speed without negatively impacting the acceleration. My concern with 3.73 was whether it would impact acceleration. I know that MM540 are never meant to do 0-60 times but I'd atleast like to be faster than the DI Turbo pickups delivering vegetables to Bangalore ;-)

[FourWheelDrift]

All of you may know this already, but just in case ...

There are some online calculators that assist with studying the effects of tire size changes or gearing changes (engine rpm range, gearbox, t'case, final drive).

Using off road gearing calculator - Google Search= , I found the below :

4x4Calc - 4x4 Off Road Calculator

Albins off-road gear : Ratio Calculator

4Lo.com :: Final Gear Ratio, Crawl Ratio, Tire Size Calculators

Happy fourwheeling,

FourWheelDrift

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by DKG

Arka my 207 has a rear Dana 44. Don't know how many splines. Would you know what kind of LSD would fit it?

I dont know what spline configuration the TATA vehicles use.

Just pull out one axle and you will get the spline count.

Besides I would suggest DIFF-LOCKS, that is if you want-to-be a serious off-roader.

Regards,

Arka

[DKG]

Originally Posted by ex670c

I dont know what spline configuration the TATA vehicles use.

Just pull out one axle and you will get the spline count.

Besides I would suggest DIFF-LOCKS, that is if you want-to-be a serious off-roader.

Regards,

Arka

For serious offroading I would be getting the Gurkha, the LSD I need for the 207 as it will lug a camper on trails

[Monster_BHP]

Well most online write ups and reviews seem to favor the differential locks over the LSD but in my opinion when it comes to human mind Vs technology then the human mind is far inferior to technology, i mean you could be dreaming of a bikini babe in honolulu under the water falls or trying to impress your friends wife while carelessly pressing on the accelerator over a slope while losing traction and toppling the vehicle over, so in most cases the LSD suits us folks well and gives us the time to day dream safely.

But for the serious dude who is intent on listening to the sound of tyre and ground battling beneath for supremacy the natural instinct of the body out strips anything else on the planet, just like Sachin Tendulkar instinctively ducks his head at a 150km/hr bouncer from Shoib Akthar, which requires absolutely no thought but a gut instinct for self-preservation and it cant be replaced by any technology now or ever and thats what most serious off-roading trips mean. We all know LSD acts after the wheel loses traction but when your dam sure the other few centimeters is not going to hold good is it better to wait for the LSD to kick in after a slip up or would you rather want something to be done before? I am guessing that most serious off-roaders would want the control in their hands if not for gut instincts sake then atleast for the fun of it.

Even gold is not worth anything in the wrong hands, same way you cant blame the diff locks for our own short comings. I am not here to trash the LSD either, its loads of fun if you want to trash your way quickly or your just a tourist dune bashing in Dubai for the first time. These things where invented for the mass public exactly for that, to have a safe and fun ride without bothering about details but it will never be good enough for a guy who likes the smell of Diesel and doesn't mind getting his hands all greased up over a days drive. In other words the worth of diff locks is purely measured by the person who is driving the vehicle and his experience with off-roading. So in many ways its better to learn how to off-road with a Diff-lock and find out what mistakes have been done rather than something that keeps its secrets to itself and does not educate the driver.

[DKG]

Wow Monster BHP Wow. In all the time I've been at TBHP this is the first time I've come across someone who so succintly nailed an arguement. Fantastic! You just separated the men from the toy boys!!!!

[RedMM340]

Monster BHP,

That is really deep. Nothing like some serious alcohol to really bring out the zen of 4 wheeling. Just don't try some off roading right now!

I just had a few myself.

Cheers,

[Roshun]

This may be a bit but here's a cheaper experiment that I'm willing to try out at some point. Don't know if anyone here has tried it yet.

To get the effect of a LSD, with an open diff, it is theoretically possible to rig up two handbrake cables and levers to each of the rear wheels independently, instead of one regular handbrake that pulls on both rear wheels equally.

What this set up would do is, in case you have one spinning wheel and the other mired in slush on the rear axle, you could pull the handbrake on the spinning wheel and slowly give the jeep some throttle. This may force the differential into transmitting power to the other stuck wheel if it perceives that as having least traction at some point.

Do you suppose this would work? In theory I think so. If nothing it would set you up with temporary 3-wheel drive .

Cheers,

[4x4addict]

Roshun,

The Mercedes M-Class and some other newer SUVs with Full Time 4x4 Sytems do use this method. The M-Class applies the brakes on the spinning wheel and there by transferring the power to the wheel with traction.

However, if extreme 4x4 situations and constant use of this method could end up with your brakes over-heating and failing.

[DKG]

Roshun its so darn uncanny that just a few weeks back I figured just this for my 207. Its so unreal that you have thought of the same thing. Wow

You bet it will work. Plus it would be the cheapest way to solve the problem.

Infact traction control systems employ this same principle

[khan_sultan]

@ Roshun & DKG. I have a question on the above method.

I have no doubt on the 'theory' of what you have mentioned and agree that traction control and some new 4x4 may be using this method but have questions on implementation via rigging cables to each wheel from handbrakes.

Wouldn't these 'newer tech' 4x4/etc be using some form of EBD, computer controlled programs to decide the braking intensity and when to release the brake etc?

Can we get the 'same' effect in reality through the implementation method mentiioned above? Want to get some pro's and con's of this?