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Old 7th August 2008, 15:35   #76
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Me thinks this thread can go on to become the "Overheating" article on Team-BHP. Each possible problem area / solution has been posted .
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Old 7th August 2008, 16:18   #77
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Me thinks this thread can go on to become the "Overheating" article on Team-BHP. Each possible problem area / solution has been posted .
Think again, we found something else.

Today I took the Jeep to the mechanic to discuss the overheating issue. When I brought up the compression testing question, his eyes glazed over, and he didn't know anybody who could do that test.

Anyway, we opened the hood and were generally staring inside. He was shaking the fan to see whether there is wobble, etc. Then he notices that the radiator is much closer to the fan in the bottom compared to the top.

It is like this:
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The top part of the radiator (above the core) was welded to the housing crookedly, adding an inch of extra gap on the top. So I left the Jeep there and asked him to fix it. Secondly he suggested switching back to original all metal cap and disconnect the overflow tank. He felt the pressure from original all metal cap was different from the rubberized cap used for overflow mechanism.

Let's see whether this will fix anything.
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Old 7th August 2008, 16:28   #78
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Measure the fan distance to radiator on any other standard Mahindra with this same engine which doesn't have a cooling problem to rule this out. Also verify if the fan and pulleys are correct for the above engine
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Think again, we found something else.
Then he notices that the radiator is much closer to the fan in the bottom compared to the top.
We had suggested this long time back to measure the distance between the fan and the radiator. Too much of a gap means the air gets sucked in from around rather than through the radiator. I have no doubt that if you go about this methodically you can solve it. You might need to guide the mechanic rather than wait for him to figure it out
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Old 7th August 2008, 17:07   #79
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Dear Samurai - sorry I was not online for some days. As you stay near Mangalore (if I am correct), please take the car to Karnataka Agencies Mangalore, meet Mr.Richie Rodrigues, give him my reference and give me a ring from there. Let his guys check out the car once and for all. The radiator cap does not seem to be original. Have you checked my post on surge tank v/s degassing tank in the "Premier Padmini Technical Information" thread in the vintage and classic cars section? Please go through. The temperature touched 100 degrees when you climbed a gradient. Then it never went beyond 70 degrees C when you came down. Between going up and coming down, DID YOU ADD ANY WATER? Finally when you reached home and parked the car, next morning DID YOU GET ANY WATER LOSS IN THE RADIATOR? Please check and let me know.

I await your call.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 7th August 2008 at 17:11. Reason: Additional information
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Old 7th August 2008, 17:59   #80
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Mr.Dhabhar, I live 6 Kms away from Udupi, and Karnataka Agencies does have a branch in Udupi. Mangalore is 75Kms away from my place. I'll meet with them.

After I came back from the Agumbe trip, I saw lot more water in the overflow tank. About 1/4 lt water had flowed out into the overflow tank.
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Old 7th August 2008, 18:43   #81
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After I came back from the Agumbe trip, I saw lot more water in the overflow tank. About 1/4 lt water had flowed out into the overflow tank.
was it sucked back to normal level when engine cooled down? also, did you notice any debris in it? take out your overflow tank and see if there are any deposits at bottom.
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Old 11th August 2008, 09:09   #82
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On saturday I did second run after re-aligning the radiator, did see some improvement. But it could be better. Also, white smoke was noticed while doing some off-roading.

Report: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-of...uers-hill.html

I think I'll take up Mr.Dhabhar's advice and call Karnataka Agencies.
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Old 11th August 2008, 10:51   #83
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You had coolant or plain water in the radiator while doing the Agumbe version 2?

And why was the radiator tilted in the first place? Mis-installation? Bend in cross member?

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 11th August 2008 at 10:56.
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Old 11th August 2008, 16:08   #84
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Today I visited the Udupi Mahindra Service center using the reference provided by Mr.Dhabhar. Three problems were detected.

1) The radiator cap was of wrong pressure.
2) The radiator core was narrower than the OE version, which means less heat dissipation area.
3) There is a crack in the head gasket that allows the compression to leak into the water jacket. They detected this by keeping the radiator open with full of water and flooring the pedal, the water bubbles started showing in the water, clear sign of compression leak.

First they are going to do compression test, before opening it to check on the head gasket. I'll know test results tomorrow afternoon. The compression test will also give some idea about the health of the engine.

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You had coolant or plain water in the radiator while doing the Agumbe version 2?
In both trips I was using plain water.

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And why was the radiator tilted in the first place? Mis-installation? Bend in cross member?
The radiator was welded wrong to the housing. The welders refused to fix it saying it can't be fixed.
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Old 11th August 2008, 20:26   #85
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...Normally it stays at 80C, but when I start climbing some hilly terrain for 20-30 minutes, it starts hitting 90,95,100C. That's when I stop and get concerned...
Samurai, I don't think you have an overheating problem. Its quite normal for engines to increase in running temp. when doing the extra 'work' like uphill at low speeds/higher revs. If your engine stays out of the red in your temp. gauge and also it isnt throwing steam/water while running or as soon as you switch off, its fine.

What happens if you don't stop ? Does the gauge keep rising ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Today I visited the Udupi Mahindra Service center using the reference provided by Mr.Dhabhar. Three problems were detected....

3) There is a crack in the head gasket that allows the compression to leak into the water jacket. They detected this by keeping the radiator open with full of water and flooring the pedal, the water bubbles started showing in the water, clear sign of compression leak...
If that is a fact then its no.3 thats the problem. A leaking head gasket will result in overheating.

Last edited by Mohnish : 11th August 2008 at 20:32.
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Old 11th August 2008, 22:20   #86
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Today I visited the Udupi Mahindra Service center using the reference provided by Mr.Dhabhar. Three problems were detected.

1) The radiator cap was of wrong pressure.
2) The radiator core was narrower than the OE version, which means less heat dissipation area.
3) There is a crack in the head gasket that allows the compression to leak into the water jacket. They detected this by keeping the radiator open with full of water and flooring the pedal, the water bubbles started showing in the water, clear sign of compression leak.

First they are going to do compression test, before opening it to check on the head gasket. I'll know test results tomorrow afternoon. The compression test will also give some idea about the health of the engine.

In both trips I was using plain water.

The radiator was welded wrong to the housing. The welders refused to fix it saying it can't be fixed.

Crack in the gasket... so this mean there has to be water in the oil. This thing is getting interesting.
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Old 11th August 2008, 22:52   #87
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Crack in the gasket... so this mean there has to be water in the oil. This thing is getting interesting.
IMHO though it is normal to assume, its not always the case that a blown head gasket would result in oil in the coolant or vice versa. The crack may not span the oil and coolant lines in the head / block. It may be limited to the coolant lines which would result in the overheating.

Again, even though Samurai's mechanical team has claimed a blown head gasket, I still am not convinced that this is a genuine overheating problem. Does the engine spew water or steam during or after running at those 'high' temps.? If yes, then it is overheating. If no, I would get the temp gauge checked/replaced.

I really hope you get to the bottom of this. I had a similar problem with a Porsche 944, took me over a year to get to the solution. Turned out to be an non oem (cheap) ac condensor coil fitted by the previous owner that was blocking the airflow etc. but thats another thread!

Last edited by Mohnish : 11th August 2008 at 23:01.
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Old 11th August 2008, 23:08   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Today I visited the Udupi Mahindra Service center using the reference provided by Mr.Dhabhar. Three problems were detected.

1) The radiator cap was of wrong pressure.
2) The radiator core was narrower than the OE version, which means less heat dissipation area.
3) There is a crack in the head gasket that allows the compression to leak into the water jacket. They detected this by keeping the radiator open with full of water and flooring the pedal, the water bubbles started showing in the water, clear sign of compression leak.

First they are going to do compression test, before opening it to check on the head gasket. I'll know test results tomorrow afternoon. The compression test will also give some idea about the health of the engine.

In both trips I was using plain water.

The radiator was welded wrong to the housing. The welders refused to fix it saying it can't be fixed.
Samurai,

Wrong pressure radiator cap makes no difference for overheating. I run a very low 7 psi cap to prevent cooling system from getting stressed.

A slightly thinner core will also make a very slight difference, and may not cause overheating by itself.

A cracked / corroded cylinder head will definitely cause overheating. I had this exact problem for over a year,and no matter what I did, the CJ340 would always overheat. Once opened up, the cylinder head had extensive corrosion and had to be replaced.

If you are going to get the cylinder head opened up, you may as well as get a top end overhaul done. Check all pistons and replace as necessary, check out the valve train, etc. It will cost a fair amount of money if you use genuine parts, but once done, the jeep will run like new.

I would also get a new water pump.

Regards,
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Old 11th August 2008, 23:16   #89
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If you are going to get the cylinder head opened up, you may as well as get a top end overhaul done. Check all pistons and replace as necessary, check out the valve train, etc. It will cost a fair amount of money if you use genuine parts, but once done, the jeep will run like new.

I would also get a new water pump.

Regards,
If you are opening her up, better get the work done, will give the engine an additional lease of life
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Old 12th August 2008, 08:26   #90
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They are doing a compression test today since I specifically requested it to assess the health of the engine. After that they will open the head.

So you guys are suggesting engine head overhaul since we are opening the head. Ok, let's wait for the compression test results first.
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