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Old 26th September 2008, 16:47   #136
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Good feedback Shahnawaz, in line with expectation, thanks.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 28th September 2008, 01:09   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
I got the 'anti sway bar/stabilizer bar' removed from the front of the Gypsy. (This is to improve off-road articulation).

To my surprise, It has had an impact on 'on road' driving with lockers. (Have driven approx 50Kms till now in City)
hi, removing the front sway bar is not good for "on road" stability.. in case you are interested to have more articulation than use sway bar disconnects.

Quick Sway Bar Disconnect System will allow the front and rear axles to articulate completely and independently of each other for much more suspension travel; by keeping your tires on the ground most of the time, you will have better off-road mobility. To disconnect the sway bar, you can simply pull the lynch pins, move the sway bar out of the way with ties and you are ready to crawl on the rocks.

here is the picture and you can see if you could get it fabricated in blr.

i am bit worried on the noise you are getting from the diffs; i dont think the lockers will make this noise; pl check the back load setting's on the ring and pinion, you could also get this sound if the pinion is loose..

it could also be that you are keeping the lockers engaged while "on road" which will make noise while turning and weird steer feel.
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Old 29th September 2008, 11:24   #138
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Originally Posted by vikid View Post
...removing the front sway bar is not good for "on road" stability.. in case you are interested to have more articulation than use sway bar disconnects.

here is the picture and you can see if you could get it fabricated in blr.
I agree that removing the sway bar is not so good for "on road" and I will agree that I can feel slight sway at highway speeds. But i am finding is quite manageable. Have driven some 600 kms over the weekend on highway and speeds of 90-110+ in Bangalore Sakleshpur road (both day/night time). I have adjusted my driving accordingly. And in city traffic, it's not an issue at all now.

Vikid, The 'sway connect/disconnect' pictures that you have shared look good and I am sure they wil serve dual purpose. I don't think they would be available here for the Gypsy or can be fabricated. The sway bar of the Gypsy is really bent at strange angles and I would not be comfortable with the fabricated stuff.

NOTE: After motocoorg mentioned about the sway bar to me, I did extensive reading and saw previous inputs on same subject in various 'Zook/Samurai' forums worldwide and found that in a Gyspy removal of sway bar will not cause that much of an issue.

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i am bit worried on the noise you are getting from the diffs; i dont think the lockers will make this noise; pl check the back load setting's on the ring and pinion, you could also get this sound if the pinion is loose..
There is NO noise from the diff. Everything is perfect there. The noise that comes is a one off clink clunk sound. That's normal in lockers. Nothing to worry about

Quote:
it could also be that you are keeping the lockers engaged while "on road" which will make noise while turning and weird steer feel.
The lockers are 'automatic' and hence always on (they are not selectable diff locks). Hence the noise and behavior during turns.
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Old 29th September 2008, 12:13   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
I agree that removing the sway bar is not so good for "on road" and I will agree that I can feel slight sway at highway speeds. But i am finding is quite manageable. Have driven some 600 kms over the weekend on highway and speeds of 90-110+ in Bangalore Sakleshpur road (both day/night time). I have adjusted my driving accordingly. And in city traffic, it's not an issue at all now.
Have you done a jump - all 4 wheels up in the air? No offense, but i guess then the sway bars would help control the rebound!

If the body roll increases, then the gypsy becomes funny to drive - You must be a great driver buddy!

I would'nt tamper much with my suspension settings as i am comfortable lifting wheels while doing obstacles!

Also, consider this situation - The vehicle is stuck [rear wheels halfway in muck and the front right is also maybe sinking in slowly - The front left will normally go in air [or stay on the ground in your case] Do you think it will give you traction in this situation?

Cheers
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Old 29th September 2008, 13:01   #140
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Default Locker update after Sakleshpur OTR + Drive

Friends, here is an update after the Sakleshpur OTR + Drive this weekend.
  • On OTR trails, I was again able to do ~90% of the terrain on 2WD. The terrain was not tough but was a mix of grassy, rocky & rutted inclines which were moist (not slush/wet). At such places, traction is most important and the lockers did a phenomenal job.
  • We did some sand blasting on a stretch and here also lockers came into their own (used 4WD here). Not even once did the Gypsy get stuck while I was driving or even when some women folks wanted to try their hand at off-roading on sand (they stalled the engine couple of times but never got stuck ).
  • At the camping site was a green rolling hill with moist grass. This inclined terrain was managed easily in 2WD. (Here I wasn't driving and it was dwaraka who was checking out my gypsy and he was really amazed that the gypsy could do it in 2WD)
  • On the approx 500+ Kms of the highway run, the lockers behaved as expected on the highway & turns. I have not finally mastered the technique of driving with lockers. I can now drive in a manner that one may not be able to realize that lockers are installed. The trick is to 'actually keep your foot on the accelerator on turns'. If you remove your foot of the pedal, you will notice the lockers. (NOTE: This does NOT mean that you will be accelerating in the turns. It's just a gentle tap.)
Cheers,
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Old 29th September 2008, 15:01   #141
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Have you done a jump - all 4 wheels up in the air? No offense, but i guess then the sway bars would help control the rebound!
No sir. And no intentions of doing so (intentionally at least). But I guess that what you are saying is correct.

Quote:
If the body roll increases, then the gypsy becomes funny to drive - You must be a great driver buddy!
No. am not a great driver, just sooo used to the Gypsy now. The body roll is not that much, but after one has been driving it for a long time, you tend to notice even the most minute of changes in how the vehicle is behaving (but I agree that Gypsy is a 'funny' vehicle to drive )

Quote:
Also, consider this situation - The vehicle is stuck [rear wheels halfway in muck and the front right is also maybe sinking in slowly - The front left will normally go in air [or stay on the ground in your case] Do you think it will give you traction in this situation?
No. I don't think so it will give traction. I will call for a tow rope or winch

NOTE (To ALL): Please, there are for sure -ve consequences of removing the sway bar & fiddling with suspension. Whether these effects are major/minor is a different issue.

EVERY THING (Mods) COMES AT A COST. KNOW THE COST
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Old 29th September 2008, 21:32   #142
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post

No. I don't think so it will give traction. I will call for a tow rope or winch

Buddy, If such a situation does not give traction, then what is the point in removing the sway bars? I'm a little foxed in this mod you have done. I dont actually see the effect of increase in articulation!
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Old 29th September 2008, 21:54   #143
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Buddy, If such a situation does not give traction, then what is the point in removing the sway bars? I'm a little foxed in this mod you have done. I dont actually see the effect of increase in articulation!
Where I want this mod to help me is on rocky ruts and uneven undulations. In such terrains, I have seen what a difference articulation makes by observing jeeps.

I honestly don't know if removing/having sway bars will help me in situation you mention. That's why I mentioned winch/tow :-)

With 3 wheel stuck -- that too in mud/slush, That would be my best option -- as my front does not have LSD/Lockers. So it is a hopeless situation any which way you look at it. Right?

PS: Hopefully my lockers will pull me out of this situation. Am yet to test extensively in half wheel slush/mud.
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Old 30th September 2008, 09:32   #144
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In the situation Headers is explainning, it would definitely help having fourth wheel on the ground because he dosen't have lockers in the front. Its simple, four wheels on the ground is better than three (more traction). It saves people jumping on the bonnet to put some weight and get it on the ground. And as headers said if tyres are buried deep it would help if you have tyres that has deeper treads to gain traction and more power and so on..

Any which way you look at it helps to have that wheel on ground, to what extent depends on other factors like tyre, power and the main performance part behind the wheel.

Plz correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 30th September 2008, 12:03   #145
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Also in the original scenario the gypsy will be like 2wd bcoz only back two wheels are powered. On the front the wheel in the air is spinning( no use) but one on the ground is not (no lockers) so having the wheel down will make 4wd again (voila..!)
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Old 30th September 2008, 20:42   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
.....The vehicle is stuck [rear wheels halfway in muck and the front right is also maybe sinking in slowly - The front left will normally go in air [or stay on the ground in your case] Do you think it will give you traction in this situation? ......
I am visualizing this as all 4 wheel in muck/slush/mud. (3 or 2.5 already there and the last one is just on the top of the muck/slush). My practical experience says that this situation will eventually call for a tow rope, but yes in a theoretical sense I can say that there will be improvement in traction with anti-sway bar removed as the FL wheel would be on the ground now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motocoorg View Post
In the situation Headers is explainning, it would definitely help having fourth wheel on the ground because he dosen't have lockers in the front. Its simple, four wheels on the ground is better than three (more traction)............

Any which way you look at it helps to have that wheel on ground, to what extent depends on other factors like tyre, power and the main performance part behind the wheel.
......
.. Wheels on ground is any day better than wheels in air (in almost all situations). However, having said that, getting stuck or making through is another matter and would be dependent on 100's of other factors.


I just remembered an incident in this weekend's Sakleshpura OTR where my right rear wheel was in a deep rut/ditch and left rear a bit in air. The front 2 where on ground. With little effort of rocking/pushing from folks around, I was able to make it out. It is for sure due to the lockers at the rear, else I would for sure would have had to be towed out.

Here is one picture. I was going to rescue the maroon Gypsy and had myself got stuck :-) (Not captured in the picture, but was in similar position as the Maroon Gypsy.)

Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-dsc05474.jpg

Last edited by khan_sultan : 30th September 2008 at 20:53.
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Old 1st October 2008, 10:08   #147
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Guys, as shanavaz puts it, in the above situation, the best way out is with a winch.

Other alternative is to not get stuck.

Having said that, the reason i posted that point is the usefulness of "removing the sway bars".

Having the 4th wheel on the ground is not of mush use as it cannot pull out the vehicle in any case as there will not be enough traction. Also as there are no front lockers, one will eventually get stuck.


So my point is "why remove the sway bars" that anyways does not provide much traction, but increases body roll, increases high speed instability, one cannot enjoy jumps etc etc.

However, if one is just doing rocky terrain, then its a different equation altogether!

Cheers
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Old 2nd October 2008, 08:10   #148
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Ok then, best way out of this slush is to agree with you.
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Old 8th October 2008, 16:35   #149
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Default On Road Driving Update: Braking while cornering...

Here is an update about the 'on road' manners of the Gypsy with Lockers.

Scenario:
  • Into a "S" kind of a curve at speed of approx 60 kmph. The road is tarmac and good. (No Potholes)
  • About to do the last part of the "S" turn when I decide to brake while in the corner itself. I apply brakes in a regular manner (no sudden braking.. just usual braking)
  • There is virtually NO traffic, and practically just me on that road (in a sense of 200 mts in front of me and no one behind me till far far away)
Vehicle Behavior:
  • The rear wheels did not 'unlock' (That's what I feel)
  • The vehicle did NOT turn in the direction of the steering and kept on moving straight.
  • The vehicle did slow down and stopped normally (from a distance perspective)
  • The vehicle moved forward with some kind of 'mechanical jerks'.
PS: I am aware of this behavior and this is also mentioned in the manual that came with the lockers. It's just that I experienced it for the first time. This will get amplified if the road is slippery/snow.

Cheers,
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Old 8th October 2008, 18:28   #150
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HI Headers,

The Maroon Gypsy struck in th picture is mine. I recollect, Khan_Sultan got struck in similar position and got himself pulled up. He put a tow rope on my gypsy and pulled it out with great ease.

I remember Khan_Sultan mentioning why he removed the Sway Bar. He is all into off roading in his Gypsy and removing the sway bar allowed greater articulation. Going over rock with one wheel over will still have the body line levelled out upright. This position gives driver more safer stature.

I have found such positions on my gypsy more scary during off roading.

Dwarak
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