Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th August 2008, 14:18   #31
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
... they should do if free of cost for you, since they will learn, and be able to offer the service to future customers.
I Agree. In fact they should pay me for letting them do the install and learn in the process. Just imagine that if they do it right and in future more people want to get one for their 4x4, where will they be headed to????

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
A locker install is D.I.Y., if you have experience with gear install, like a ring and pinion, etc. Personally I would not advise it, unless you have someone with this type of experience working with you.
My version of the DIY was to use the M.A.S.S. :-) They open the diff and I tell them what to do. But am now thinking of other options. Have got hold of an ARB dealer in Bangalore and lets see what happens. Good news is, he knows what LSD/Air based lockers mean and has installed ARB lockers in a Gypsy before so this should be a piece of cake. Bad news is that he didn't know what 'full lockers' (like LockRight/Detroit/Ez) meant. Have sent him tons of web links to him for reading.

He will call me and then we will take it forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
And by the way, you might want to get a couple of spare axles ready prior to any hard core off roading with your new locker. Just in case.
That's wicked Gaurav . Don't worry, I will be taking it easy for some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Shahnawaz I wouldn't be surprised if the web has some forums where this install on Suzuki Samurai's has been discussed in detail, and the mistakes during install highlighted. Do check that out too.
Oh yes. I have tons of material that I have collected on all kinds of lockers on a Samurai. In fact 2 of them give step by step detailed instructions with pictures -- one for Samurai and one for Jimmy.

Locker Install -- Samurai

Locker Install -- Jimmy

Cheers,

Last edited by khan_sultan : 13th August 2008 at 14:23.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 15:15   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
nitrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UAE/Lon/Madras
Posts: 6,965
Thanked: 264 Times
Default

OT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmm
Somehow, the knee-jerk reaction on this forum, for any technical issue is to contact your local tuner. While some of these guys may know more than the average ustaad-mechanic, some are more of sales/marketing B.S. experts than technical experts.
I think your experience from Delhi speaks here.
You should meet and get to know some of these "tuners" to realise that at the bottom of their heart ,they're HARDCORE enthusiasts who've taken up their hobby as a living.
You really should meet the guys down south.
nitrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 15:57   #33
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by susan3004 View Post
How will this physically lock up? Will it be electrical(switch) or mechanical(gear lever in addition to what exists)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
... When it senses the difference in speed beyond a point, it locks the diff. Unlike LSD, this allows no slip after it locks. That is my understanding, but I am not sure how it unlocks. KS, please correct me if I am wrong.
Samurai, After reading the various available information, it seems that it is the other way around. i.e. it 'unlocks' when there is difference in speed (as on turnings). Rest of the times it is 'locked' and 'always on'.

"In an automatic locker design, which does not use spider gears, at least one wheel must turn the same (relative) rpm as the drive shaft while the other wheel can turn faster (but not slower). In most all automatic locker designs, the inboard wheel drives at the same (relative) RPM as the drive shaft and the outboard wheel unlocks and travels at the increased ground speed which is what is driving it."

Source

Though I have a fair idea of how this all works(in theory), but honestly I don't understand in detail. Am putting my faith in the 1000's of people who have got this done on their Samurai's and other 4x4's with excellent results.

I am one of those guys who will understand it better once I have it installed and see it in action. Then I can in retrospect find out how this all works.

Here is a view of the locker and the part details. There is NO switch/gear to control the locker.

Name:  lockrightexploded.jpeg
Views: 2990
Size:  41.5 KB

Source


Also, here is some feedback from a user of lockright:

"...if any power gets transmitted from the engine, the locker locks up, but the split second you let off the gas, the axle wants to kick the other way. It can really throw you around and is not something for a novice driver who doesn't know the vehicle.
The best method I have found to avoid this is to use enough momentum to coast around tight corners, then it only clicks. Keep the clutch in as much as possible in tight stuff and it's hardly noticeable. But turn and give it some gas and you better be quick on the steering wheel, which is tough if you have the old manual steering box....
"

Last edited by khan_sultan : 13th August 2008 at 16:15.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 23:09   #34
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
OT:
I think your experience from Delhi speaks here.
You should meet and get to know some of these "tuners" to realise that at the bottom of their heart ,they're HARDCORE enthusiasts who've taken up their hobby as a living.
You really should meet the guys down south.
Nitrous,

I believe you. I have heard of only good things about tuners in the south. From what I have been told, the work ethic in general is just much more sincere in the south.
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 23:34   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
kuttapan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,155
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Samurai, After reading the various available information, it seems that it is the other way around. i.e. it 'unlocks' when there is difference in speed (as on turnings). Rest of the times it is 'locked' and 'always on'.
yes you are right, that is how it works. I have been reading up on this subject and some users complain that it fails to unlock itself sometimes(mostly under power) and then you lose steering and go straight ahead, especially in frond diff installs. Scary situation.

One would have to play Ballet on the throttle/clutch to make this thing work properly.
kuttapan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 23:37   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 643 Times
Default

@ REDMM340 - I think so too. I find that guys here, tell you that they don't know, when they don't know.

Last edited by jyobeb : 13th August 2008 at 23:41.
jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 00:15   #37
BHPian
 
viper_711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 345
Thanked: 55 Times
Default

Shahnawaz,
I am keenly following this thread - do update us post the install.
After seeing the antics of your gypsy during the last b'lore meet - there is a thought germinating...
viper_711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 20:47   #38
BHPian
 
satan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 355
Thanked: 801 Times
Default

shahnavaz & all gypsy lovers this will be a treat for you. Enjoy your reading. There is a special sction on locker installation that you might find useful.

Samurai-Page
satan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 20:08   #39
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default Update: Lockright Now Installed..!!!

Guys,

An update. Got the 'locker' installed today. Just came back home after a test run of approx 5-6 Kms on city roads. Was with the garage from 9.00 am in the morning till 7.30 pm late evening today.

Will be posting a detailed install report soon with pictures.

Initial impressions: wooooosssssshhhhhhhh.. what 'TRACTION' cheers:. In 2WD it is equivalent of 4WD-H traction feel. Need to take it off-road to test out the locker now.

Did not feel any issues with 'on road' driving, turns and it was raining here in Bangalore with the roads wet and slippery. Till now have been driving sedately and have felt no issues.

And yes, I can hear/sense the 'click-click' locker sound on turns

Last edited by khan_sultan : 16th August 2008 at 20:11.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 20:28   #40
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,677
Thanked: 8,704 Times
Default

Congratulations Shahnawaz on being first person to install aftermarket lockers on the forum,please post the report soon as we are expecting a lot from your gypsy.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 20:45   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
mjothi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,252
Thanked: 216 Times
Default

Congrats. So finally its injected. So, are you planning for the palar now Eager to see your vehicle in action. Btw, did you had pictures of the install? If so, please do sahre here.
mjothi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 21:13   #42
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
...So, are you planning for the palar now Eager to see your vehicle in action.
palar already underway this long weekend and about to get over sir...

Quote:
Btw, did you had pictures of the install? If so, please do sahre here.
Will be doing that soon.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 22:20   #43
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pollachi Coimba
Posts: 32
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Glad to know that you are happy with the lockers installed.Will tell Dr Jai too,expecting your offroad review of the locker soon.
wildcard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2008, 11:47   #44
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default Detailed install pictorial log and a 100 Kms 'on road' report

Friends, Here is the complete installation pictorial report -- apologies for the huge number of pictures.

Also, more detailed install pictures can be viewed at: Picassa

The Gypsy waiting to be hoisted up for the locker install:
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0002.jpg

The wheels and the axles come off:
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0017.jpg

No, this isn't a barrel of a gun but is the barrel of an axle
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0019.jpg

The diff removed from the housing
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0027.jpg


Now the parts start to come off. This is also where the markings were done so that the assembly could be done correctly. Things start getting serious here
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0029.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0036.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0037.jpg

This is the open diff. These 4 'spider gears' are responsible for how the stock axle behaves.
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0050.jpg

More parts come off. Even the side gear will not be used in this install.
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0051.jpg

Now the 'locker' install begins. This start the beginning of the 'assembly' phase.
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0052.jpg

One part of locker in case now and rest parts going in one by one. The small springs and locks were inserted very carefully with silica grease to hold them together during the install.
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0053.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0054.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0055.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0056.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0057.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0062.jpg

The locker fully installed now and ready for putting in the bearings and other diff parts. The assembly done back again with the torque settings as per manual and the diff with the locker is now ready.
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0063.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0067.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0068.jpg
Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0069.jpg

To be continued...

Last edited by khan_sultan : 17th August 2008 at 11:59.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2008, 12:06   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
gowda79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 141 Times
Default

Nice installation Khan bhai and hope you are getting the required results from you Gypsy.

Enjoy riding and more off roading
gowda79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project. EDIT: Stage-2 Started now.. khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 239 3rd February 2011 15:06
Gypsy on Steroids: Maxxis Trepador M8060 MT. Update Now on Yoko Geolander MT! khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 102 27th August 2010 16:46
A Pure Off-Road Spec Gypsy Build | SPoA, Lockers, Bumpers etc etc. swastikviji 4x4 Vehicles 81 16th July 2010 16:54
Gypsy on Steroids: The Rockcrawler 4.16:1 T-Case Gearset. khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 94 24th July 2009 22:47
Gypsy on Steroids: Next Dose -- Short Chassis for reduced rear overhang khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 56 24th March 2009 12:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:18.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks