Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th August 2008, 12:11   #91
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,469
Thanked: 694 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
mmmmmmmm.... should I be doing this or ?

Please do explain on what all can happen (in on/off road) and what are the other possibilities.

Cheers,
From the people who have used it on their Gypsies, did you come across anything that happened ? Isn't there a good number of users of this device ?
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2008, 12:15   #92
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 913 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
mmmmmmmm.... should I be doing this or ?
Shahnawaz just use your car and if no precautions are specified in the user manual no need to get too psyched up

Thousands of people have used this on Samurais worldwide, read through forums on any problems they would have encountered

I don't think anyone in India is really qualified to comment on the locker without ever using one. Any discussion on its merits demerits would be pure conjecture

Last edited by DKG : 20th August 2008 at 12:19.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2008, 12:33   #93
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default

I agree with you DKG - let's leave it at that for the time being. And Shahnawaz - you can be no need for . Chill man ! As for possibilities, think and you will get. I can see the enthusiasm in you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2008, 12:41   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Shahnawaz - I studied all your photographs in complete detail and now I know how it works and what all can happen to it. There are other possibilities. Let's see. I will be watching your Gypsy's performance.
@ DHABAR.BEHRAM

Sir, one clarification - How does this gypsy react while on a straight road at a good speed and one turns in? Am talking rally style turns!

Will the locker have enough time to react and let the diff work or will the driver have to be careful?
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2008, 12:49   #95
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 913 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I can see the enthusiasm in you.
Dear Mr. Dhabar your observation as always is spot on. Isn't that so precious. What Shahnawaz has done is wonderful for the sport and I have no doubt so many will follow. In time I'm sure both you and Shahnawaz will ascertain all the pros and cons of the auto lockers. Until then its a joy that we have a hardcore offroader in the making and many more to join the tribe.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2008, 13:07   #96
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
...How does this gypsy react while on a straight road at a good speed and one turns in? Am talking rally style turns!

Will the locker have enough time to react and let the diff work or will the driver have to be careful?
arrrrreeeee Vikram, why would one want to do 'rally style' turns on a off-road spec Gypsy . I thought you were my well wisher. I for sure am not doing any testing of 'rally style' turns.

jokes apart, the locker works brilliantly and I have driven some 300+ kms now on high/low speeds. Today I tested for speed of 130 in 4th Gear on NICE road.

however, the driver has to be careful on turns and the manual clearly says so. nothing to worry or lose sleep over. Just some 'clunk-clunk' sound and at times some jerks on low speed turns (am talking U turns/90 deg turns)

but rally style turns -- NO way on this locker on my Gypsy :-).
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 16:59   #97
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default

Dear Shahnawaz - I have downloaded richmond information. Most of it is commercially worded and not of any technical use. If you by any chance have one more set, can you post photographs of both inner and outer "gears" immediately, taken from all angles, especially showing tooth profile. Also, did the kit have 4 pins and 4 springs? What was the OD of the pins? How many coils did the springs have? Please PM me. I am getting into some basic calculations, hence the request.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 20:24   #98
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
arrrrreeeee Vikram, why would one want to do 'rally style' turns on a off-road spec Gypsy . I thought you were my well wisher. I for sure am not doing any testing of 'rally style' turns.

jokes apart, the locker works brilliantly and I have driven some 300+ kms now on high/low speeds. Today I tested for speed of 130 in 4th Gear on NICE road.


but rally style turns -- NO way on this locker on my Gypsy :-).
I am your well wisher, thats why i wanted to get all things clear. Its a wonderful concept, which i hope works on Rally style turns too.

Ofcourse, I am a speed crazy guy. On road, Off road, anywhere!

Hope Debhar clears up the necessary calculations and tells us the limit of adhesion. Or the start of the lift cheers:
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 20:48   #99
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
...If you by any chance have one more set, can you post photographs of both inner and outer "gears" immediately, taken from all angles, especially showing tooth profile. Also, did the kit have 4 pins and 4 springs? What was the OD of the pins? How many coils did the springs have? Please PM me. I am getting into some basic calculations, hence the request....
No. I don't have any other locker set. Here is one more (and only) picture I have that could help you.

Gypsy on Steroids: Lockers installed and tested now-img_0820.jpg

Yes, there were 4 pins and 4 springs. The 4 springs sets were double springs (one spring into another -- if that's what you meant by coil). Can't remember the OD/length of the springs. maybe an inch? and same for pins.

One observation, when the diff with locker was assembled(NOT installed and not put in casing with ring/pinion gearset), one could sense 'spring movement' up and down if pressed the locker from top/down (from where axles would come in). We checked it out and that's what allows the locker to unlock and wheels to differentiate during cornering/turns.

Can't remember the tooth profile -- maybe 1/4th of an inch? BUT the tooths of the driver/coupler locked literally watertight.

Hopefully this info helps..

Cheers,
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 21:40   #100
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

I love this thread! 5 starred!
the main attraction of the gypsy is that it can be modified extensively, considering the parts that are available off the shelf.

About trouble at home, I feel your pain! every time I squirrel away some money and approach anything near a reasonable sum,my assests get frozen and nationalised by the home minister

BUT, new lockers for the gypsy and ICE for the S10 in the same week? brave man!

Last edited by rippergeo : 21st August 2008 at 21:45.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 22:01   #101
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
I.... considering the parts that are available off the shelf.
...What??? which world are you in buddy . At times even the regular parts can be difficult to source. One of my friends is looking for a steering box assembly and had a tough time sourcing it.

So forget about the OTR performance mod parts availability in India. NON EXISTENT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
... BUT, new lockers for the gypsy and ICE for the S10 in the same week? brave man!
I know man. :-). Jokes apart, my wifey is also a passionate auto enthusiast in her own way. She doesn't understand the engines/technicalities or even the difference between brands etc, but just loves automobiles, driving -- especially the Gypsy. She even regularly watches ALL auto shows on TV.!!!! We both even watched F1 cars in action when they ran once in London (Regent Street)

So it's kind of easy for me in that respect. I just say that it is for her that I am getting all this done :-)

Cheers,
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 22:09   #102
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
...What??? which world are you in buddy . At times even the regular parts can be difficult to source. One of my friends is looking for a steering box assembly and had a tough time sourcing it.

So forget about the OTR performance mod parts availability in India. NON EXISTENT.
I meant, imported parts. now, if i went looking for lift kits on an M540, where would I find them? anyways, let me get a 4X4 before talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
We both even watched F1 cars in action when they ran once in London (Regent Street)
2006?cool! I was there too(small world eh?), alone! my wife refused to join me
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 22:31   #103
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
...2006?cool! I was there too(small world eh?), alone! my wife refused to join me
No. 2004. '04 was the first time F1 had a street show race kind of thing in London IIRC.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th August 2008, 12:08   #104
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default Lockers -- Tested in Off-Road conditions

Ok Guys,

I had been itching to test the lockers in an OTR and luckily we planned an sudden OTR yesterday (Sunday). Saturday night, we the Bangalore jeepers, were in a teleconference and couple of jeepers decided to hit out the 'Soligere' trail on Sunday morning and try to do it 'the difficult way'.

We had a MM540, a MG410W and my MG413W and a total of 5 people in this OTR. (This was JUST perfect -- nearly optimum vehicle's and number of people for a wonderful OTR)

Must say that it was one of nicer OTR's, made more so by the performance of the Diff Locks. Guys, I didn't have any camera with me so no pictures here. Karthik (aquamaverick) , who took some pictures and he can post a detailed travelogue on this (this was his first OTR), and how we literally cooked 'Rajma' using engine heat, elephant scare and the 'Usian bolt's' record breaking run for life by everyone, a bloody nose, MG410's T-case failure etc etc..

The Soligere trail, from Muthathi side, is a upwards trail with cricket ball size loose rocks/gravels all the way up, steep climbs of fast deteriorating surface bushy paths and muddy/rocky ruts with very very sharp turns. Such kind of a terrain is quite challenging while climbing up and is relatively easy (compared to climbing) while coming down. We decided to do it the hard way as we just had 3 4x4's so time was not an issue.

So here is the first OTR report on the lockers:
  • In this trail, I had decided NOT to use 4wd until absolutely necessary to just test out the lockers. Many places the Gypsy did cover in 2wd itself where I would have normally used 4wd and the MG410 did use 4wd
  • At few places where the MG410 stopped in front of me and I had to stop on the rocky/gravel climb/incline, my Gypsy did not move in 2wd from there itself. Had to come back and gain momentum in 2wd and then it was easy climbing with momentum. (If you have momentum going, the lockers help a lot to get you further.)
  • In the above situation when not moving with 2wd, with 4wd the gypsy just took off from there itself. No need to come back and gain momentum.
  • Literally ZERO tyre slipping in 4wd. It just goes on and on -- over everything effortlessly. Just loved this part. I know how my rear tyres used to slip earlier even while taking on the terrain successfully.
  • In 2wd mode on climbs over rocky/gravel surface it was the front wheels that did not have any power that led to both rear tyres spinning before the vehicle could not move any further in 2wd. However, the moment you put 4wd, it just takes off.
  • One noticeable difference I feel in OTR now is that I can now make my Gypsy crawl a lot better than before (in relative terms to the MM's). This by itself is such a huge advantage that Gypsy OTR drivers can imagine. This helps as we don't have to rev the Gypsy to bring it into it's power band.
Few comments from the fellow jeepers who drove it for a little while:

'it feels like a diesel -- low end torque is too good'

'the diff-locks works brilliantly and make a big difference'

PS: To the 3 4x4's and the folks who were in this OTR. This was great guys. Had a blast. Let's do it again sometime soon with an overnight camping thrown in

Cheers,

Last edited by khan_sultan : 25th August 2008 at 12:25.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th August 2008, 12:45   #105
BHPian
 
S@~+#0$#'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 701
Thanked: 36 Times
Default

Nice Writeup Shahnawaz and the points made by you helps us understand what to expect from the diff-locks. Nice mod, great results cheers: .

Did anyone else carry a camera on this OTR? If so, please post pictures.
S@~+#0$# is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project. EDIT: Stage-2 Started now.. khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 239 3rd February 2011 15:06
Gypsy on Steroids: Maxxis Trepador M8060 MT. Update Now on Yoko Geolander MT! khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 102 27th August 2010 16:46
A Pure Off-Road Spec Gypsy Build | SPoA, Lockers, Bumpers etc etc. swastikviji 4x4 Vehicles 81 16th July 2010 16:54
Gypsy on Steroids: The Rockcrawler 4.16:1 T-Case Gearset. khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 94 24th July 2009 22:47
Gypsy on Steroids: Next Dose -- Short Chassis for reduced rear overhang khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 56 24th March 2009 12:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:09.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks