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Old 12th March 2010, 18:53   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky_Balboa View Post
I found this pic very useful, in understanding the loads on the different types of axles.

However, I fail to understand the load distribution on the axle shaft bearings used in semifloating axles.
a) Ball-type bearing
b) Straight-roller bearing
c) Tapered-roller bearing

Can someone help me out with a rendering.

Edit: Another query on the safety of semi-floaters.
Wouldnt the retainer piece be sufficient to hold the axle in place, if the shafts break? How often does the shaft break exactly at the flange?
I think 2nd set is of Semi Floating & Third set is of Full Floating? Correct me if wrong.

This needs some more inputs from Mr. Arka
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Old 12th March 2010, 18:56   #17
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Default 3/4 Floating

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
I think 2nd set is of Semi Floating & Third set is of Full Floating? Correct me if wrong.

This needs some more inputs from Mr. Arka
1) SFRA
2) 3/4 Floating 1 Bearing Supports the Hub & Wheel Assembly
3) FFRA
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Old 12th March 2010, 19:24   #18
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@Rocky_balboa as shown in the last case, is reaction of horizontal loads taken by the halfshafts in a FFRA?

Spike
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Old 12th March 2010, 19:31   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1) SFRA
2) 3/4 Floating 1 Bearing Supports the Hub & Wheel Assembly
3) FFRA
Ohh.. 1st scene for SFRA is pretty scary... what causes this in real environment? & what thing can cause Horizontal load?
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Old 13th March 2010, 17:20   #20
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Default Tractor Axles

Does Tractor have FFRA?
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Old 15th March 2010, 16:20   #21
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I was wondering if a Tractor has a FFRA. I mean such a powerful engine to produce a great amount of Torque and from whatever I can see on a tractor it does not have a FFRA.
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Old 15th March 2010, 18:18   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
@Rocky_balboa as shown in the last case, is reaction of horizontal loads taken by the halfshafts in a FFRA?

Spike
The picture makes me believe so, Spike. I would request our expert Arka, to confirm if the understanding is correct.

Arka,
Could You please clarify the above and help me in understanding the load distribution on different types of bearing used in SFRA.

Repeating an earlier question - Wouldnt the retainer clip in SFRA hold the axle in place, if the shaft breaks-off?
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Old 16th March 2010, 10:09   #23
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Default Reduction Hub

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrot_eater View Post
Does Tractor have FFRA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrot_eater View Post
I was wondering if a Tractor has a FFRA. I mean such a powerful engine to produce a great amount of Torque and from whatever I can see on a tractor it does not have a FFRA.

Hi Carrot,

What makes you say a Tractor does not have FFRA.

The Tractors use a Portal Reduction Hub for the Rear/Drive Wheels, and the FFRA is incorporated with in the Reduction Hub.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 16th March 2010, 10:28   #24
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Default Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky_Balboa View Post
The picture makes me believe so, Spike. I would request our expert Arka, to confirm if the understanding is correct.

Arka,
Could You please clarify the above and help me in understanding the load distribution on different types of bearing used in SFRA.

Repeating an earlier question - Wouldnt the retainer clip in SFRA hold the axle in place, if the shaft breaks-off?
Hi Rocky,

In most cases its a Roller Bearing or a Ball-Bearing.

IIRC the M&M JEEPs use Roller Bearings.

I'm do not know enough to comment on the "load distribution on different types of bearing used in SFRA"

In a SFRA, if the Axle breaks the Axle/Half Shaft will come out. The Retainer/C-Clip is inside the Differential Carrier, and prevents the Axle/Half Shafts from slipping out.

Moto Tux: Why C-clip axles are evil

Jeep Tech: Axles

Regards,

Arka
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:06   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Rocky,

In a SFRA, if the Axle breaks the Axle/Half Shaft will come out. The Retainer/C-Clip is inside the Differential Carrier, and prevents the Axle/Half Shafts from slipping out.

Regards,
Arka
Thanks for the details and links, Arka.
I read somewhere that the retainer clip can also be at the flange. The following post on the web seems to confuse me more.

Full floater vs. semi- float - 4Wheel & Off-Road Forums at 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine
Regarding breaking a semi floating axle. What you said may be true of any GM C-clip style axle or for that matter nearly any semi floating axle. However if you look at the D44, the axle flange has a hole in it so you can unbolt a retainer piece from the housing. This retainer holds the axle in place. The only way that the wheel would break off would be if it was right at the flange. Generally axles break near the splines or at a place where the shaft necks down, not at the flange.
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:16   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The Tractors use a Portal Reduction Hub for the Rear/Drive Wheels, and the FFRA is incorporated with in the Reduction Hub.
Thank you Arka. It was not that obvious by looking at the tractor wheels, hence the question.
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:21   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky_Balboa View Post
Thanks for the details and links, Arka.
I read somewhere that the retainer clip can also be at the flange. The following post on the web seems to confuse me more.

Full floater vs. semi- float - 4Wheel & Off-Road Forums at 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine
Regarding breaking a semi floating axle. What you said may be true of any GM C-clip style axle or for that matter nearly any semi floating axle. However if you look at the D44, the axle flange has a hole in it so you can unbolt a retainer piece from the housing. This retainer holds the axle in place. The only way that the wheel would break off would be if it was right at the flange. Generally axles break near the splines or at a place where the shaft necks down, not at the flange.

Hi Rocky,

The Retainer in a 1-Piece SFRA does hold the Axle in Place.

But the due to the design, the retainer and damaged axle will not be axle to support the weight of the vehicle, and the wheel will start wobbling and the strain will be on the bearing and retainer.

Regards,

Arka

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-ax...-rear-axle.gif
Attached Thumbnails
Axles: Live/Dead, Semi/Full Floating etc..-cj7cj8dana44rearaxle.gif  

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Old 16th March 2010, 11:33   #28
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I don't know whether this is the right place to mention this problem or not but I really need a help.

My Gypsy front axle got broken - the story goes like this

I was having some play in my front left tyre, so I thought of checking the bearings.

After inspection we found that the bearings were not in bad shape but still I replaced it. The problem started when I took a trial after these changes. There was a continious noise from the left side but vanished after 2-3 kms of ride. So I thought everything is OK and I dropped the mechanic at his Workshop and drived back to home. But after hadrly 1 km of drive there was loud sound like "Kaddak" and my gypsy started vibrating. I suspect the front axle broken.

What could be the possyble reason?

1. Kin pin were swapped by mistake from top to bottom.
2. Number of shrimp Plates were not sufficient
3. Mechanic had applied more torque while tightining the nuts etc.

Gurus pls help I don't want it to happen again,
1. how to check whether the axle is functioning proper after changing the bearings.
2. Whether axle repair is advisable or I should go for new one.
3. How much a front axle cost for gypsy.

Cheers!

Alok
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Old 17th March 2010, 15:02   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Rocky,

The Retainer in a 1-Piece SFRA does hold the Axle in Place.

But the due to the design, the retainer and damaged axle will not be axle to support the weight of the vehicle, and the wheel will start wobbling and the strain will be on the bearing and retainer.

Regards,

Arka
Thanks a lot, Arka.
It is clear why having two bearings on a FFRA, has an advantage over a single-bearing SFRA!
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Old 21st March 2010, 15:47   #30
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Lightbulb

Did a very interesting field work at shivaji nagar scrap market. Wanted to learn more about this modification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Santosh, if you look at the image I have posted, axle housing is the biggest change. Also, you won't get FFRA setup in 48 inch size.
Sharat, Dejavu . Axle remains the same. No need to even take it out of the Jeep/Leafs to change to FFRA. But, you are right, FFRA never came in 48" after the WW era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U.B.Singh View Post
Hello Santosh,
it may be interesting to note that the semi floating (Dana 44) vs full floating rear drive axle system(as found in the earliest Jeeps of the WWII era), can be incorporated into our jeeps with std. 4 ft.track....
Quote:
1. The legendary Dana 44 rear differential housing can be joined/attached with a spindle, (from the front diff), and a front hub carried by two bearings.(501349 or the later ones cannot remember the size right now).
UBS'ji,

I learnt there are 4 important items in this MOD.

1) Spindle (from front)
2) Hub (from front)
3) flange (i was shown 1 AFM one, is it ok to use?)
4) The axles themselves.

Quote:
2. The live axles in question being adaptable to 48in. track, could be sourced from a WWII jeep.
1 Problem UBS'ji. These WW-II parts are very hard to find and the scrap dealer proposed this.

i) Take/Use one 'longer' axle off a bolero/marshal. This axle will come with a company welded flange at the outer end.
ii) Cut the flange end out, cut it down to the needed length. LEAVE the crown end untouched (with the company milling intact).
iii) Then, mill down the cut end to match the new Flange's teeth.
iv) Use the new fabricated Axle with the new flange. Don't weld the axle with the new flange.

My Question to the gurus:
1) How strong/reliable is this fabricated axle?
2) Is it Ok to use it with the new flange without welding the joint? I didnt understand why the gujuri dealer said dont weld it.

Quote:
.........the old model axles came with 10 splines. Jeepers with 19 should get a pair of 10 teeth bevels, before conversion.....
I hope this will be taken care by using a 19 spline axle, right, Sir?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I spoke to BabuRaj and learnt ..... from him ...... the whole Axle housing is to be changed.....
Babu, after we spoke few days back I kept wondering why Raju would keep the entire 4Ft housing for himself. I was wrong!! He did entirely what UBS'ji mentioned above. Only thing you can ask Raju is your old axles and few other parts back.

Last edited by svsantosh : 21st March 2010 at 15:49.
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