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Old 28th September 2008, 15:55   #1
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Exclamation Need Technical help on 4x4

Dear Friends,

I need help with the following:-

Force Gurkha has 4x4 and difflocks

I need advice that if the Tempo excel tuck has the same engine can the Grear box and the difflocks be fitted on the the truck?

can some one help me with the issue

regards

Waraich
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Old 28th September 2008, 19:42   #2
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Hi Mr.Waraich,
Aint Tempo Excel a Tata 407 type of truck. If its that, why do you want a the Gurka gearbox for it. Although i am not sure, the Excel, since it is a heavy duty vehilce it might have a heavier gearbox that the trax, so why would you want to de-grade it. And if it shares the same engine as the Gurkha, i.e. has the same amount of power, than it is very likely it has the same gearbox, coz they would put the lowest 1st gear ratio gearbox on the truck, therefore it might have the same ratios as the trax or even lower ones, so you dont need to change the gearbox. What you do need for converting it to 4x4(that is if its not already a 4x4), is the transfer case, which in the case of the Gurka,or other familiar force vehicles, is a divorced transfer case unit, so it will fit in almost any vehicle, but you would want to use that only if the excel makes about the same kind of power that the gurka does. If it produces more than 1.5 times the torque of the gurka, then please dont use it as it probably would not be able to handle the torque and break someting. But then you could also use a tata transfer case, which also is a divorced unit and will be easily available in manimajra, chandigarh, and is almost a direct fit, with ofcourse need the mounts to be fabricated to load it into the frame.
Also if the Excel is a Tata407 kind of truck then it certainly uses heavy duty axles, of about 3-ton or more ratings. The Gurka axle(rear one) has a rating not more than 1.2 tons(the front having even lesser), so it would not be axle to take the load at all. Even if you would want to use the diff-locks in a normal trax axle, it would not fit without some very neccessary parts. The diff-locks used in the gurka are of the dog clutch variety,and relys on splines on both the axle shafts and the differential carrier,with a sleave, fork, and shifter, so these certainly will be changed and also would be one full side of the axle housing, that is if it comes apart. If not ,you would have to buy a new housing. The bottom line is even if you would want to change a normal trax axle to the ones having a diff lock, you would almost have to change 95% of the parts so ,you are better off with a new axle. But since you have a heavier axle(than the Gurka) in your truck, you have no choice but to go for a equivalent or bigger axle. The Army Tata trucks have a diff lock only in the rear axle, but they are very big axles. The Tata407 has axles with about the same size ,weight and rating, so they would be the best choice. The Army Tata407 is advertised with a difflock, but so far i have not seen any of them having one(My uncle was a BSF DGP till about 2 months ago when he was promoted to DGP-Himachal, and i saw plenty of TATA 407 with them, but so far i hav'nt seen any with a difflock,fornt or rear, although it looks quite odd to me, coz the primarily role of the BSF is to guard the borders and the India-Pak border is mostly a desert where you do need the diff-locks). Even the Swaraj trucks provided to the BSF have LSD's, so i wonder why TATA 407, which are even advertised that way,do not have it. If you can locate any TATA sales person, then do ask them if you could order a differential with a diff-lock. Also the Front and Rear TATA407 axles have identical differentials except the obvious changes, so the locks made for a rear axle can be made to fit the front axle with a modified front axle shaft(only 1 side , not both axle shafts of the axle, and would be made from a rear axle shaft).
If the diff-locks for the Tata407 axles cannot be located, then you would have to use the heavier axles or you could go in for a mahindra loadking/cabster axle. I am not sure, but the axle used on the mahinda loadking/cabster looks exactly like a Dana60(you would have to find that out before you do anything). A difflock for a Dana 60 is available in the states but an switchable difflock usually costs in the range of about a $1000 dollors, and not only that, there is no vehicle in India that has a similar axle used at the front, so then again you could either use another axle at the front, like your existing axle(if its a front wheel drive) or a Tata407 front axle, but you would then not have a diff-lock at the front. Another choice is to order a dana 60, dana70, dana 80 from the states but a front unit of the abovementioned axles generally costs about $3000 dollors there, and that too without a diff-lock, which you would have to buy seperate. New Tata 407axles would be the cheapest, if you could find the diff locks for it.
Regards,
Bikram
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Old 28th September 2008, 20:03   #3
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AFAIK, the tempo excel truck is a 4WD in itself. Why do you need to put the G box and diff locks of Gurkha in that?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpswaraich View Post
Dear Friends,

I need help with the following:-

Force Gurkha has 4x4 and difflocks

I need advice that if the Tempo excel tuck has the same engine can the Grear box and the difflocks be fitted on the the truck?

can some one help me with the issue

regards

Waraich
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Old 28th September 2008, 21:01   #4
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Are you looking to convert a 2WD Excel into 4x4? Besides the Gear box, transfer case and diff locks, you will also need to source the front differentials, axles etc.

Is this for a commercial need or as a hobby? if it is for commercial needs, you maybe better off ordering a 407 with 4x4 set up from the factory.

If you want to stick with the Tempo you will need to source all these parts from Force Motors.
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Old 28th September 2008, 23:25   #5
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maybe he wants to make an Indian Unimog!

cheers:
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Old 29th September 2008, 12:39   #6
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Hi there friends,

Thanks a million for so many replys,

well I am looking to make a 4x4 caravan for self and family I was considering excel because its has some thing to do with merc, (the engine part atleast) well I am willing to look at swaraj mazda as well or for that matter Tata Model LPTA 713 TC (4x4)

I ned the vehicle to have:-

1) 4x4
2) difflocks
3) As reliable as possible Engine & Gear box & Diffrential.
4) Though I dont trust TATA or Mahindra for relaibility and stability but still if you guys recoment something, will definately give due dekho to your openion before I do anything.
5) Stable Vehicle

I intend to travel with my family on and off road and on the dunes, through rivers and mountains, and the jungles as well.

My cell No is 09872417777 (I hope I can give it here) Since Mr Bikram is from my home town Chandigarh I would like to meet Him personally and take his advice on the subject.

The project is purely for Hobby and No Force Excel is not 4x4 only a few were given to ITBP and that too discontinued now?

TATA 407 is not as stable as I would want it to be no idea about the reliability.

Since I would do it in a phased manner I dont mind importing stuff we will do it step by step, as long as long-term maintanance is not an issue.

Regards

Waraich
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Old 29th September 2008, 15:55   #7
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You may also want to consider ordering a Force Motors Cruiser 4x4 version with the BSIII engine or tempo Kargo King 4x4 version. These cruiser is meant to carry over 13 people so I am guessing that it can handle the weight of being converted into a caravan. Both these vehicles can be modified into a caravan with a high roof. These vehicles will definitely be more comfortable to drive than a 407.

You could also pick up one of the 4x4 LCVs from the army auction and convert it to a caravan.
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Old 29th September 2008, 17:12   #8
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You may also want to consider ordering a Force Motors Cruiser 4x4 version with the BSIII engine or tempo Kargo King 4x4 version. These cruiser is meant to carry over 13 people so I am guessing that it can handle the weight of being converted into a caravan. Both these vehicles can be modified into a caravan with a high roof. These vehicles will definitely be more comfortable to drive than a 407.

You could also pick up one of the 4x4 LCVs from the army auction and convert it to a caravan.
The company is qite stuck up Infact i had asked for a long wheel base gurkha which they did not supply! so if I have to do my own engineering I would Like to Make bigger vehicle. A friend has a Gurkha at Patiala and its a fantastic vehicle no doubt!
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Old 29th September 2008, 23:46   #9
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Well, everything goes wrong sometimes or the other, so the first thing when you make something such as a caravan is to figure out what would you do if something goes wrong. Ever wondered why that Mahindra Jeeps with the DI engine are so popular in rural areas. Well, its because its got such simple mechanicals that anything hardly goes wrong. Considering the Mahindra DI motor, it is probably the oldest diesel engine in India(or maybe the world, but do correct me if i am wrong) that is still in production. Its got a no good power figure, is noisey and will rattle you up, but low end torque its got plenty(What amases me is what kind of drugs were the company folks on when they decided to put the Di in the Bolero, when they could use the Scorpio motor instead). Anyways the major advantage of the DI , and also the reason why it finds favor amongst farmers ,pickup wallas ,taxi walla, etc, is that it has very simple mechanicals and that hardly anything goes wrong, and if it does, its again so simple that any road side/shade tree mechanic will fix it. As regarding parts, it again has a major advantage since the mahindra pick up is so popular and mahindra has a workshop even in the remotest areas, and even if there isnt, then, heard of the Mahindra tractors, well you could use the parts from the tractor in case of an emergency coz 90% of the parts match up, now that reliability. And since Tata trucks have penetrated the market so well, you would be able to find them everywhere, and therefore the workshops and spares wouldnt be that far off.
So the point my friend, is that even though the mercedes engine(actually is a 60's-early 70's mercedes engine) of the Force truck may sound appealing, it just cannot beat this quality of TATA. I mean, you are halfway between leh-ladakh and something goes wrong, how difficult and long do you think its going to take if you have a tata vs a force. In a tata, even the fauji's can help you out with parts as they have the same trucks.
Now if you think Tata aint reliable in terms or passenger vehicles, then its entirely the opposite when it comes to trucks, and why would'nt it, coz it makes nothing on its own leaving aside its chassis(actually i aint sure about the chassis too, who know if it too is outsourced). The Engine is a Cummins, which is a U.S company and the very same engine used on the Truck comes in the Dodge Rams also. The GBS600 gearbox(tata design but it doesn't make it) is probably the only gearbox in India meant for a truck with an overdrive and is very reliable(maybe the bigger volvo buses have it too but they are beyond our reach. The axles too are from Elliot and another company i cannot remember at the moment. And it is the only 3 ton class vehilce, that would give you a rear differential lock(only the high budget trucks would give you both front and rear diff locks, and as for tata 407, never seen one with a diff lock even though they are advertised with it). So its the best choice you have. I have PM'ed my number to you .
Regards,
Bikram Singh Sandhu
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Old 3rd July 2009, 13:43   #10
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Has anything taken shape?

as far as i know excel is available in 4x4 and I recently saw it in Delhi with the dealer.
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Old 3rd July 2009, 17:35   #11
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Ideal thing to replace a bolting Elephant in tall grass. Need a couple of nice seats on the cabin top. But unfortunately those days are gone till there is a change in Govt. policy.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 09:30   #12
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hi waraich, i have the same dream , even i am looking for a 4x4 tempo traveller to convert it into a caravan , does anyone have the info if force motors supplys the same to civilians. ar any tata truck which comes in 4x4
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Old 3rd September 2010, 13:44   #13
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you can buy a 4x4 excel but you have to know right people.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...l-vehicle.html (force Excel 4x4 funeral vehicle)
it will be easier to buy 4x4 excel then converting traveller.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...eller-4wd.html
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