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Old 10th November 2008, 23:11   #31
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Quote:
I found fitting the Army Sandgrips gave the 440 good grip and stance. Attached is a picture of the sandgrips when new,they tend to wear out in 12000km or so on normal use.
Dear jammy,
Long time no see. How are things.
Well, i have a question to ask. I love the way my jeep looks with those tall Sandgrips. Considering their average age to be 12,000-15,000 kms, which my jeep has done some 9,000 already, i think i have to think of alternatives in the few months to come.
Without loosing the current stance, clearance and other good things that come with a few inches of height, can you suggest me any brands/type of tyres for the next change.
1. Sreerajunnithan, jokingly suggested to check out JCB front tyres that look like broader NDMS. Have no idea on the PCD match etc.
2. Shakir suggested to go for goodrich AT.

My basic requirement would be to get tyres that have the same outer Diameter equal to that of the sandgrip.

regards,
Krishna.
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Old 10th November 2008, 23:46   #32
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Use this link to compare your various options:

Tire Size Calculator - tire & wheel plus sizing
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Old 11th November 2008, 00:16   #33
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Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Thanks a lot for all these practical advices. It will really be helping a lot for my coming jeep project. Vaspro mentioned one very important point which was also going on in my mind (thanks for raising it): drum brake with booster and the disc. As you mentioned that the booster was essentially designed for the disc brakes, is there any side-effect of such a conversion in drum brake?
Regarding changing into a disc, two points you have mentioned: the cost and the engine power. I guess it will not be advisable to do such an upgrade for an engine of approx 1900 CC and 75 BHP? The cost somewhere I heard is around 12-15 K.
Regarding the rollbar/rollcage you have fabricated, how much is the dia of the pipe and where it has been attached (I mean the position in the jeep where it has been welded)? And the cost also please.
Finally, yeah, your white beauty will look better without a cage as it has that 'distinguishing' image in it
Kandisa,
The only side effects of fitting booster on drums is, you have to be soft on the brakes. For eg. like we nearly need to stand on our present 540/550 brakes in medium to high speeds to get it to a stop, and you drive the booster fitted jeep as we are used to applying the same pressure on the brake pedal there is a big screeching sound of tyres and the Jeep nosedives due to the assisted booster braking. If you learn like I did how much pressure to apply, there is no problem at all. All said it is worth the conversion as you have a phenomenal control over your brakes. This conversion will cost you 5000 for parts + labour charges, that is if your jeep already has an altenator. Without it you cannot install a booster.
The rollbar, use ESSSAR m.s pipe 14 gauge, 2.5 inch dia. You can use a 3 inch pipe if you can find someone to bend it. Now you will have four ends that will touch the floor of your Jeep, 2 ends of this squarish "U" pipe and two slant supports which can be 2 inch in dia. have thick plates welded to these four ends and bolt the U pipe end on the floor where the mudguard front part ends just behind the the front seats, the slant supports would be best on the side seats area somewhere in the centre. finally wrap it up with foam the high density kind, and finish it with a good artleather. Remember to get the angle of the U bar right, do not have it straight up, it should be leaning a bit about 15 degrees to the rear,. The slant supports will take the weight in case you really roll over. Soon I will post pics of rollbar on my green Jeep.
Fazal
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Old 11th November 2008, 00:32   #34
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The closest you can get in radials is 265/70/r16 which will fit your current rims.They will be close to in height to the sandgrips.
Cheers
jammy
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittigadu View Post
Dear jammy,
Long time no see. How are things.
Well, i have a question to ask. I love the way my jeep looks with those tall Sandgrips. Considering their average age to be 12,000-15,000 kms, which my jeep has done some 9,000 already, i think i have to think of alternatives in the few months to come.
Without loosing the current stance, clearance and other good things that come with a few inches of height, can you suggest me any brands/type of tyres for the next change.
1. Sreerajunnithan, jokingly suggested to check out JCB front tyres that look like broader NDMS. Have no idea on the PCD match etc.
2. Shakir suggested to go for goodrich AT.

My basic requirement would be to get tyres that have the same outer Diameter equal to that of the sandgrip.

regards,
Krishna.

Last edited by MM440 : 11th November 2008 at 00:36. Reason: grammar whic i am pretty bad at :(
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Old 11th November 2008, 08:58   #35
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Kandisa,
In continuation to explanation of the rollbar design I posted yesterday, attaching a pic of a Kaiser Jeep from Hyd. (red overline is drawn by me to show you the tilt of the big U bar and the support bars, this is the most simple design also the most effective in terms of structural strength, the tilt allows the weight and inward pressure on the big U bar to be transmitted and evenly distributed to the support bars in case of a rollover. The Gauge and thickness part was posted earlier for you and all.
There are many kind of rollbars and designs, just make sure it has more than cosmetic value on your Jeep.
Working on a 540 (Now Completed)-rollbar.jpg
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Old 11th November 2008, 10:08   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Kandisa,
The only side effects of fitting booster on drums is, you have to be soft on the brakes...
The rollbar, use ESSSAR m.s pipe 14 gauge, 2.5 inch dia. You can use a 3 inch pipe if you can find someone to bend it. Now you will have four ends that will touch the floor of your Jeep, 2 ends of this squarish "U" pipe and two slant supports which can be 2 inch in dia. have thick plates welded to these four ends and bolt the U pipe end on the floor where the mudguard front part ends just behind the the front seats, the slant supports would be best on the side seats area somewhere in the centre. finally wrap it up with foam the high density kind, and finish it with a good artleather. Remember to get the angle of the U bar right, do not have it straight up, it should be leaning a bit about 15 degrees to the rear,. The slant supports will take the weight in case you really roll over. Soon I will post pics of rollbar on my green Jeep.
Fazal
Sir,
Hats off for providing such a detailed guide on the rollbar. This was exactly what I was looking for. Waiting to see the finished rollbar on your green jeep. Only thing is that I need to find someone in Delhi who can do the bending job for such type of piping. By the way, what should be the thickness of the plates to be attached at the four connecting points for a 2.5-3 inch dia pipe? The hyderabad jeep rollbar which you have posted looks really good but the extra bendings will probably make it more complex and costly too. Meanwhile this is a rollbar I saw in a jeep in Goa recently. Looks solid, the design is bit different.

Regarding handling the break, can't agree more that it really needs some time to understand the overall behaviour of the breaking and the jeep as a whole by driving it as much as possible, as this is not an ordinary car. Will definitely keep the booster as the utmost priority. Thanks once more for the guidance.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Kandisa : 11th November 2008 at 10:11.
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Old 11th November 2008, 11:39   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Sir,
Hats off for providing such a detailed guide on the rollbar. This was exactly what I was looking for. Waiting to see the finished rollbar on your green jeep. Only thing is that I need to find someone in Delhi who can do the bending job for such type of piping. By the way, what should be the thickness of the plates to be attached at the four connecting points for a 2.5-3 inch dia pipe? The hyderabad jeep rollbar which you have posted looks really good but the extra bendings will probably make it more complex and costly too. Meanwhile this is a rollbar I saw in a jeep in Goa recently. Looks solid, the design is bit different.

Regarding handling the break, can't agree more that it really needs some time to understand the overall behaviour of the breaking and the jeep as a whole by driving it as much as possible, as this is not an ordinary car. Will definitely keep the booster as the utmost priority. Thanks once more for the guidance.
Kandisa,
You are most welcome anytime.
The plates to be welded at the bottom end of the pipes should be 6mm, and bolted exactly where your pic shows. On the Hyd. Jeep is good but will need a precission job, no idea if you have that kind of workmen in Delhi, here there are plenty, and it will be expensive too. the simple design on the pic. you posted is just fine, but that too does not have a tilt, the tilt is most important for distribution of inward stress to all four points of the rollbar. and the slant support bars need not come from the top horizontal part of the big U bar as this will eat into the headroom for the rear passengers,(in your pic.) it will serve the same purpose if welded from the sides(vertical pipe area).
It will take you not more than a week to get accostumed to the booster assisted brakes, it is worth it!
Fazal
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Old 11th November 2008, 15:07   #38
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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Kandisa,
On the Hyd. Jeep is good but will need a precission job, no idea if you have that kind of workmen in Delhi, here there are plenty, and it will be expensive too. the simple design on the pic. you posted is just fine, but that too does not have a tilt, the tilt is most important for distribution of inward stress to all four points of the rollbar. and the slant support bars need not come from the top horizontal part of the big U bar as this will eat into the headroom for the rear passengers,(in your pic.) it will serve the same purpose if welded from the sides(vertical pipe area).
Fazal
I do take a note of the importance of the tilt Sir. Also to accommodate the rear passengers comfortably, definitely the design should be as you have mentioned. Unfortunately Delhi doesn't have not much of experienced workmen for jeep as in hyderabad, otherwise people here wouldn't have been running around the messy Mayapuri mechanics! But since this is a necessity for the safety aspect, will try my best to find out something dependable. Can you kindly give me some idea regarding the cost? In the range of 7-8 thousands or even more?
- Best regards
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Old 12th November 2008, 06:49   #39
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Can you kindly give me some idea regarding the cost? In the range of 7-8 thousands or even more?
- Best regards
Kindisa,
Here it would cost between 5-5.5 thousand till completely finished.
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Old 12th November 2008, 08:31   #40
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Dear Kandisa and Fasal - you need to have angle sections instead of just plates as the base of the rollover bar, so that you support on the body's vertical faces as well. Also, you need to strengthen the portion below the getting in getting out space (there is no metallic door in the CL340 as the car is a soft top). Please see brand new CL500MDI Major cars, the section modulus has been increased in this area by introducing a box section. This is necessary to meet seat belt performance regulation of pull out load. The roll hoop is added for the same purpose. If all this is not done, the rollover bar will not protect you as it should, on the contrary, it may harm you by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For doing correctly on one car, it is very easy, make a cardboard template, bend and staple the ends and handover to a decent fabricator. The sheet metal thickness should not be more than 3 mm. Fazal - Balanagar in Hyderabad has good press brake guys, it is a one day job if the guy knows what he is going to cut and bend.

Please PM me if you want more help.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th November 2008, 09:18   #41
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Kandisa and Fasal - you need to have angle sections instead of just plates as the base of the rollover bar, so that you support on the body's vertical faces as well. Also, you need to strengthen the portion below the getting in getting out space (there is no metallic door in the CL340 as the car is a soft top). Please see brand new CL500MDI Major cars, the section modulus has been increased in this area by introducing a box section. This is necessary to meet seat belt performance regulation of pull out load. The roll hoop is added for the same purpose. If all this is not done, the rollover bar will not protect you as it should, on the contrary, it may harm you by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For doing correctly on one car, it is very easy, make a cardboard template, bend and staple the ends and handover to a decent fabricator. The sheet metal thickness should not be more than 3 mm. Fazal - Balanagar in Hyderabad has good press brake guys, it is a one day job if the guy knows what he is going to cut and bend.

Please PM me if you want more help.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Behram Sir,
Your tips are most valuable, yes the additional vertical support by angle sections will be extremely helpful, does that mean that we will need to use bolts that would come through the body from outside below the B pillar area to fasten the vertical part of the plate? Why 3 mm sheet metal instead of a thicker (is this the angle section thickness you are reffering to or the pipe?) will definetely check out the guys at Balanagar.
Lastly sir, The tilt angle of the rollbar which I described (also in pics.) to Kandisa, is that fine or can that be improved upon?
Sincere thanks,
Fazal
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Old 12th November 2008, 10:12   #42
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Thank you
cheers
jammy

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mm440-thats one beauty you got there, congrats dude
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Old 12th November 2008, 15:12   #43
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Wow lot of discussion on variou topics, very informative thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittigadu View Post
Without loosing the current stance, clearance and other good things that come with a few inches of height, can you suggest me any brands/type of tyres for the next change.
1. Sreerajunnithan, jokingly suggested to check out JCB front tyres that look like broader NDMS. Have no idea on the PCD match etc.
2. Shakir suggested to go for goodrich AT.

My basic requirement would be to get tyres that have the same outer Diameter equal to that of the sandgrip.
@Krishna: What is the diameter of Sandgrip tyres? is it 31". You can look at AT tyres which will have good overall performance. You can look at Samurai-san's thread on same topic (very informative)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...l-roads-2.html (All-terrain tyres for SUVs that roam the rural roads)

Coming to your question on JCB tyres, they are indeed NDMS pattern 9X16" and bigger.

My personal choice though for 10.5X31 Yokohama Geolander AT tyres (coz i am using them )

Cheers!
-Vaspro
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Old 12th November 2008, 20:02   #44
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Originally Posted by vaspro View Post
Wow lot of discussion on variou topics, very informative thread.
@Krishna: What is the diameter of Sandgrip tyres? is it 31". You can look -Vaspro
Vaspro,
The outer to outer dia of sandgrip is 32".
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Old 19th November 2008, 10:58   #45
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so fazal,

any updates on the work on the green jeep?

FK
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