Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st November 2008, 23:59   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,392
Thanked: 654 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
It would be the greatest favor I can ever think of asking some one, can you get some pictures of the water pump setup from the gearbox to the actual place where the water flows.
Actually its not a jeep but for a Land Rover. It can be mounted at front and back. Landrover is built that way. I don't have the image of the pump right now.

The hole is on the bumper, Similar hole is at the back. and yeah you can crank your engine too when your battery goes kaput.

Jeep PTO units (Winches, generators etc)-lr.jpg

Last edited by SirAlec : 22nd November 2008 at 00:00.
SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2008, 02:37   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 266/D G.T.Road(N), Liluah, Howrah. W.B.
Posts: 43
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Hello Tramways Siva,
this is indeed a wonderful topic taken up for discussion.

"PTO".......... we all know is the abbreviation for Power Take Off.
Please don't get interrupted with questions about winches and that too electrical ones come up, when we are discussion a serious Jeep 'PTO' issue.
Suggest they go into Maruti 800s and even on Ambassadors of Fiats with high ampere alternators.

I am happy that we are discussing about the Jeeps' alternative power capabilities taken off from the trusted engine/gear combination.
I wish, it creates interest amongst members of the BHP forum to know about the various 'multi-use/ all-purpose' vehicles which always carried in-built provisions for power output other than the drive to the wheels only.

Did many of us know how :

1. the legendary WWII Ford Amphibious Jeeps 'GPA' used special dual lever PTO gearbox to propel them as well as pump the water out of their hull ?
2. the Fire service Jeeps drive those massive water pumps mounted on them ?
3. the Forest dept used mechanised saws for felling trees ?
4. the ONGC used their jeeps for oil wells' drilling ?
5. the early civilan Jeeps in the US, did farming duties ?
6. the Jeep Thrills' famous stripped Willys MB 8181, use it's PTO driven winch to recover broken down cars with the rear bumper boom setup like a crane?
and how the lone Tamil Nadu tractor discovered by Siva doing instant pumping service during heavy rains in Chennai this year.

I would leave it here for interested fellow BHPians to discuss and educate us on this PTO issue through this board.
Heard about Dabwali and Moga made replica low bonnet Jeeps, but never seen such LRs.
Can we also include them in our study?
Others seeking more instant in-depth knowledge, on this should contact the right people directly via private messages, as mails are moderated here and they cannot include cell numbers as 'help line' measure.
Looking forward and..................
Always with you and wishing you all the best.............................................. UBS
U.B.Singh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2008, 10:32   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
trammway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 1,122
Thanked: 210 Times
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by U.B.Singh View Post
Hello Tramways Siva,
this is indeed a wonderful topic taken up for discussion.
Sir, I'm really proud that you have given such a good status to this thread. I'm actually working on collecting bit of information to support whatever extent I know about those attachments. (Pictures included)

As you know I'm in deep search for them on the Internet, I came across couple of people in India who said they used to have such PTO devices installed at their Jeep in the past. Hence I'm also searching for whereabouts, in the southern part of this country is dry and none is available.

I'm sure you have couple of the PTO stuffs in your jeeps, It would be mind blowing information if we could see some pics too.

As stated by Arka, as he got some PTO stuffs from Mayapuri and I'm already thinking of visiting those places to collect a few.

I'm also curious to know if we can call a Overdrive as PTO attachment? as it goes into the PTO port of transfer case. If yes, we have another sub threat on OD itself to go on talking about Jeep.

I have created this thread exactly for what you have stated, in terms of:

1. Highway drive (use of OD to give more speed and less RPM)
2. Farm usage (All most all rear attached PTO devises)
3. Emergency services (Crane and Water pumps for Fire departments)
4. Fun Driving purposes (Oh that Jeep looks says when the top is removed)
5. Military usage (The hard core no road scenario)
6. Recovery machine (PTO Winches)

the list can reach to any limit.....

Looking forward to see a lot of replies to this thread.
trammway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2008, 13:33   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,240
Thanked: 600 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by U.B.Singh View Post
"PTO".......... we all know is the abbreviation for Power Take Off.
Please don't get interrupted with questions about winches and that too electrical ones come up, when we are discussion a serious Jeep 'PTO' issue.
Suggest they go into Maruti 800s and even on Ambassadors of Fiats with high ampere alternators.
With all due respect sir, I understand this is a PTO thread and its applications. But this particular line got me thinking. Why not electric? and so my query below.

Since this is the PTO and Winch thread in one.

Whats preferrable:
1. An Electric Winch (my choice)
2. A winch driven off the PTO

Have used an Electric Winch before and have seen a working of a PTO driven Winch. The Electric Winch was more efficient over the PTO driven one. Why? because it was more seamless and easier to use; factors to consider when you are stuck in the middle of no-where (this was pre 4x4 enthusiasts explosion we see now). Single Jeep 2 guys and no destination in mind. Oh and no camera's then, we started off when digital cameras cost as much as our Jeep, and to date i dont know how to load a roll in a camera.

With the PTO driven Winch you will need the engine to run to use the Winch. And this probably has been its major handicap. I have witnessed situations where the shaft cannot rotate the differential for the Winch to work.

The above is only during some of the many times i have ever used a Winch. No Winch on my Classic and luckily have used other methods to pull myself out of situations in which the Winch could have been ideal.

The query is more to do with folks who are serious of going the offroading way asking me to source a PTO driven winch. As per me its better to invest in a Electric one. Or is it?
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2008, 00:15   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,392
Thanked: 654 Times
Default

because in electric you have 10-15 minutes max before you drain up your battery or heat-up the cables.
A good idea is to have a double battery setup though.
I had 24volt FFR setup in my vehicle. it was too complex so i removed and changed to simple 12volt setup.

SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2008, 15:03   #21
BHPian
 
Sabareesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ambarnath
Posts: 328
Thanked: 59 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
because in electric you have 10-15 minutes max before you drain up your battery or heat-up the cables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post

The Electric Winch was more efficient over the PTO driven one
With the PTO driven Winch you will need the engine to run to use the Winch. And this probably has been its major handicap. I have witnessed situations where the shaft cannot rotate the differential for the Winch to work.

For an Electric Winches your battery has to be in Ship Shape. A PTO Winch would prove useless if you stall your JEEP while fording or your Engine dies off for some other reason.

I have heard about Hydraulic Winches too, What's their Modus Operandi ? How do they work ? and then there are Hand operated Winches. Has anyone used them ??
Sabareesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2009, 21:48   #22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tokat,Turkey
Posts: 22
Thanked: 28 Times
Default

I own a 1962 Jeep Kaiser production CJ 5 equipped with Borg Warner T 98 transmission with a PTO unit installed on the driver side(left).The unit activates rear pto spline shaft which is also mounted on the rear cross member.The Spicer 18 transfer has also the second PTO unit in the rear.This unit is of twin stick type and it is connected to the Braden Winch mounted underbelly in the rear of the vehicle.(An electric 8000Lb Braden winch is mounted on the front bumper,too.)Through the spline shaft either with pulley drive unit or with standard agricultural implement shafts you can do any job an ordinary farm tractor does,stationary,or moving it doesnt matter.You can connect it to water pumps,generators,air pumps etc.,by the way ;my unit has a second spline shaft at the side of standard agricultural one,but revolving direction is opposite.Also the diameter and the splines are not of the common agricultural type,but you can use it for hydraulic pump installation or for some special implements which can be revolved clockwise or anti-clockwise.I used my standard pto with a 15 KWA generator for welding while building a steel structure sheep barn at the site of which the electricity was not available.Actually my jeep is equipped with a 140 Amp. welder and I can do any welding job with this unit,but 15 KWA generator (3ph.) looked more professional.I still keep the generator installed on an axle wich is ready to tow any where behind the jeep.Of course to operate welder or any other implement requires a governer, and my Hurricane engine has one mounted on the left front part.(also the hand throttle is connected)
seyit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2009, 21:28   #23
BHPian
 
Alfa_Kilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 328
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

I have a PTO installed in my jeep. The winch will come later. It is possible to install a PTO on the spicer 18 TCase, some versions may require a little modification.
Alfa_Kilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 02:14   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
trammway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 1,122
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Guys,

It is unbearable loss that Alfa_kilo is no more with us here, After seeing his post above this one, I'm saddened and praying for his parted soul to Rest in Peace.

I guess, Here is the same PTO Alfa_Kilo mentioned in his post. I got this PTO unit from Jeep Guru Mr.UBS and this is the first ever PTO unit I'm seeing myself for a Jeep.
Jeep PTO units (Winches, generators etc)-image011.jpg

Jeep PTO units (Winches, generators etc)-image012.jpg

Jeep PTO units (Winches, generators etc)-image013.jpg
I have 2 plans to use this PTO, however never heard of any other available farm equipment that will work straight with this available unit.

This unit comes with the PTO and a Lever to engage the PTO with Spicer 18 transfer case PTO port.

Looking at the PTO one can easily recognize that the top portion of this PTO unit got the lever insert and front side of the PTO got gear that mates with spicer 18 transfer case with the holes provided to bolt on. But I'm guessing that this unit would have also used in many other non-Jeep vehicles as the holes provided to bolt on to a transfer case is way more than that of Spicer 18.

The gears shown inside the PTO will pop out and engage itself with the transfer case when the lever on the top of this unit is pushed forward. I think I need to make some minor alteration on the Jeep's platform to provide space for this lever.

The rear side of this PTO got a flange with four holes for accessories to add on.

I have plan to buy and fit the sakthiman truck's pto sprocket, I assume that will fit directly into this flange may be not if the dia of the sakthiman PTO sprocket differs. But I got an Idea from SM, If convert the flange movement into a sproket then I can put anything on the gargo area of the Jeep and drive it with a chain.

I request the PTO experts here to through some light here with what are the available options to use this sprocket and chain driven mechanism with this idea above.

Please note that my question is strictly on the options available in India to try out.

Secondly I could also think of running a longer driveshaft output from this flange and take it to the rear bumper of the Jeep to do some farm work. But I'm again stuck with what are the accessories available in India to test this PTO and drive shaft. If only I know the accessories available, I will decide how much of spline count I need to do when I'm fabricating the oneside flange and one side spline pto drive shaft. Since my jeep is a CJ3B I think I will try to use one of the available rear left side axle of MM550 with 30 spline or CJ3B axle with 19 spline on this PTO. Because the axles also got spline on one side and flange setup in other side.

Please let me know if you get some idea what could be used with a spline output on the rear of the Jeep.

Last edited by trammway : 23rd August 2009 at 02:19.
trammway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 09:53   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
trammway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 1,122
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
I have plan to buy and fit the shaktiman truck's pto sprocket, I assume that will fit directly into this flange may be not if the dia of the sakthiman PTO sprocket differs. But I got an Idea from SM, If convert the flange movement into a sprocket then I can put anything on the cargo area of the Jeep and drive it with a chain.
In the above post I was talking about Shaktiman PTO which is attached to the gearbox and same has been shown in this picture below for better understanding. I wanted to make similar sprocket setup and also a drive shaft extended to rear bumper for multiple applications.

Jeep PTO units (Winches, generators etc)-image035.jpg

Now , I only need to see what are the application using this sort of sprocket can run with the cargo area of the jeep.
trammway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 10:47   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
desertfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon, Delhi NCR
Posts: 1,186
Thanked: 522 Times
Default

I have used different Winches, Warn 8000 or other makes on Jeep Wranglers or Landcruiser Prado, but not on CJ3B or Diesel Jeeps.

It is a great asset if used safetly and properly for self rescue or to winch other vehicles.

However for Winching puposes a deep cycle battery is absolutely essential. SO is the use of tree saver strap and force multiplier pulley.

I hope there is already enough information here on other threads about winching techniques. If not, then I can write a few notes on dos and donts with winches on OTRs to benefit all BHPians, do let me know.

Shahid
desertfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 15:32   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
trammway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 1,122
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
I have used different Winches, Warn 8000 or other makes on Jeep Wranglers or Landcruiser Prado, but not on CJ3B or Diesel Jeeps.

It is a great asset if used safetly and properly for self rescue or to winch other vehicles.

However for Winching puposes a deep cycle battery is absolutely essential. SO is the use of tree saver strap and force multiplier pulley.

I hope there is already enough information here on other threads about winching techniques. If not, then I can write a few notes on dos and donts with winches on OTRs to benefit all BHPians, do let me know.

Shahid
Hi Shahid,

This entire is thread is all about the PTO and it's applications in the Jeep. Many of us again and again coming back to a same discussion that the PTO means PTO winch.

What I mean PTO application is that of non-legacy Jeep purposes. Lets say Jeep could be a tranport vehicle, an offroader, a recovery vehicle but using the same Jeep and its motor to run a generator, water pump, air compressor, farm eqiupments, crane and or any other non transport related work with Jeep's engine power.
trammway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 17:14   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
I have used different Winches, Warn 8000 or other makes on Jeep Wranglers or Landcruiser Prado, but not on CJ3B or Diesel Jeeps.

It is a great asset if used safetly and properly for self rescue or to winch other vehicles.

However for Winching puposes a deep cycle battery is absolutely essential. SO is the use of tree saver strap and force multiplier pulley.

I hope there is already enough information here on other threads about winching techniques. If not, then I can write a few notes on dos and donts with winches on OTRs to benefit all BHPians, do let me know.

Shahid
That would be great Shahid. Please do as this would help a lot of us who are still novices to the jeeping world.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 17:16   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
I have used different Winches, Warn 8000 or other makes on Jeep Wranglers or Landcruiser Prado, but not on CJ3B or Diesel Jeeps.

It is a great asset if used safetly and properly for self rescue or to winch other vehicles.

However for Winching puposes a deep cycle battery is absolutely essential. SO is the use of tree saver strap and force multiplier pulley.

I hope there is already enough information here on other threads about winching techniques. If not, then I can write a few notes on dos and donts with winches on OTRs to benefit all BHPians, do let me know.

Shahid
That would be great Shahid. If you could share your experiences and give us pointers, it would help a lot of us novices.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2009, 19:26   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
trammway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 1,122
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
That would be great Shahid. If you could share your experiences and give us pointers, it would help a lot of us novices.

My humble to request to all of you to take up the Winching techniques under recovery related thread so all those who are looking for winching tips can get benefited

Please do not mistake me for this lines, just my opinion.

Last edited by trammway : 23rd August 2009 at 19:31.
trammway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3D computer modelled cars, bikes etc (3DS, Maya etc) blueraven316 Shifting gears 103 23rd January 2015 13:23
Water Powered Car / HHO Generators - Boost mileage & performance sumith Technical Stuff 88 25th November 2013 15:00
Synthetic rope vs Wire Rope for Winches Tejas@perioimpl 4x4 Technical 10 5th April 2013 01:07
Anti honda?? Anti suzi?? Anti fiat?? Anti ford etc etc?? Vent out ur opinions here!!! mclaren1885 Shifting gears 3 29th June 2006 14:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks