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Old 16th February 2009, 18:28   #31
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Default Upgrades & Modifications to IFS

1) Extra Weight - Winch, Engine Swap, Taller Tyres (heavier more Rubber)
2) Differential Mods - Diff-Ratio Change & Traction Devices
3) Beefing up - Suspension and Steering
4) Increasing GC

1) Extra Weight - Forget Engine Swap
But with a Winch and Taller Tyres 31" and Above (each 25 Kgs plus), what can we do to make up for the extra weight, the front will tip down?

a) Leaf Springs - Add a Leaf
b) Coil Springs - Add Spacer or Change Coil
c) Torsion Bar - Change Torsion Bar What other M&M option do we have here?(That's for the OZ TLCs)

2) Differential Mods - Our Mechanics are our Friend lets Keep it that way
i) Remove the Independent Arm Assembly
ii) Remove the Differential Housing
iii) Then Do the Mods.

Too complicated to fiddle with.

3) Beefing Up - Is there an M&M version of the NGCS -OKBJ for the IFS?
i) Cannot Upgrade the rack & pinion (FJCruisers etc have replacement kits)
ii) Cannot upgrade the Torsion Bar for Additional Load.
iii) What About stronger Upper & Lower Arm?

4) Increasing Ground Clearance
i) Taller Tyres - read 1,2
ii) Portal Axles - That will make M&M a true international.
iii) Longer Upper & Lower Arms - From Where

So anything other than stock will roger the suspension and steering and an expected visit to M&M Authorized Garage.

I can understand the need for a emission control, hence the engine Change and mandatory safety features for BS-III & BS-IV, But cannot relate Solid Axle or IFS to that.

Also How about putting the 2498cc CRDe (Bolero) which is an XD3P block in the existing MM550XD.

But surely the ones with the thinking Cap in M&M know that will not call for regular garage visits...but then I'm digressing

Regards,

Arka
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Old 16th February 2009, 18:34   #32
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1)
Also How about putting the 2498cc CRDe (Bolero) which is an XD3P block in the existing MM550XD.
That must be cool eh, Now I need to look out for an accident / insurance claimed / bank re-claimed "new Bolero"..
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Old 16th February 2009, 20:04   #33
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Also How about putting the 2498cc CRDe (Bolero) which is an XD3P block in the existing MM550XD.

Anyone here, can you give me a hint how much would the brand new 2498 CRDe will cost ? I hope this can be sourced easily as newly introduced.

As Arka said here, if the CRDe is in the XD3P cover I'm sure it can sit in my Classic without modifications to the Chassis.

Now another question, as all of you have already familiar with the MM540 differential ratio, is it good to upgrade that too if I'm opting to go for CRDe power in the Jeep. I hope that will sure help me getting good highway cruising experience along with offroad trips.
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Old 16th February 2009, 20:17   #34
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Anyone here, can you give me a hint how much would the brand new 2498 CRDe will cost ? I hope this can be sourced easily as newly introduced.

As Arka said here, if the CRDe is in the XD3P cover I'm sure it can sit in my Classic without modifications to the Chassis.

Now another question, as all of you have already familiar with the MM540 differential ratio, is it good to upgrade that too if I'm opting to go for CRDe power in the Jeep. I hope that will sure help me getting good highway cruising experience along with offroad trips.
Dear Trammway,
Whenever somebody talks about plonking a new engine into their jeep, the only person i remember is GTO! Please check for his thread, you should be able to get more info.
Happy Jeeping..
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 16th February 2009, 21:41   #35
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One aspect not discussed so far is the superior traction IFS affords offroad. If I am doing mountain trails I'd be more comfy in a vehicle with lower unsprung weight allowing wheels to track surface independently. In solid axle setup when one wheel hits a bump the other tends to move up too as they have a rigid connection. On a gradient you are tackling sideways a wheel unsettled can trigger a loss in traction in the other causing a slide

In summary solid axles are the obvious choice for rock crawling at slow speeds but in most other conditions where you may traverse terrain at an incline or at higher speeds IFS gives you superior tractability on account of lower unsprung weight

Trucks still use solid axles as it's load bearing properties remain unrivalled
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Old 16th February 2009, 21:42   #36
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Trammway,

A new XD3P engine costs about Rs.1,80,000/- at MSRP. So it is safe to assume that the CRDe engine would be anywhere between 2.5-3 lakhs.

And I think you won't get any warranty on the engine since you are installing it on an unsupported chassis.
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Old 16th February 2009, 22:25   #37
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Trammway,

A new XD3P engine costs about Rs.1,80,000/- at MSRP. So it is safe to assume that the CRDe engine would be anywhere between 2.5-3 lakhs.

And I think you won't get any warranty on the engine since you are installing it on an unsupported chassis.

Warranty part is scary and ofcourse the CRDe price.. you made me to think again.....
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Old 16th February 2009, 22:35   #38
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Continuing from here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-of...ml#post1109747

I have heard that IFS is almost useless for the kind of offroading we do in India, I know many who are totally against IFS. So is it wise to have IFS if Mahindra does come with a new MM540 version?
oh yes IFS is much better for a 4x4 to have for offroad activities. from my days in africa to europe to middle east.....almost all of the 4x4 i have driven had IFS.
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Old 17th February 2009, 09:03   #39
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Dear all - the M&M CRDe engines are as follows:

"NEF" (2.6/2.5)
"mEAGLE" (2.5)
"mHAWK" (2.2).

XD3 is not CRDe.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th February 2009, 09:29   #40
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One other point not mentioned is solid axle setups are prone to a nasty shimmy which can scare the wits out of a driver when it occurs. To those who haven't experienced it its a horrid wobble which almost feels like the wheels will come off. Jeeps are very prone to this and when this happens at a higher speed it can prove dangerous. I am sure this can be usually addressed with stabiliser links etc but to the unsuspecting driver it can be quite scary. Often the feedback lashes back through the steering and can hurt your fingers.

I am not a technical expert but some of our experts here can advice how Jeep owners can address this problem effectively.

Last edited by DKG : 17th February 2009 at 09:30.
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Old 17th February 2009, 10:10   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - the M&M CRDe engines are as follows:

"NEF" (2.6/2.5)
"mEAGLE" (2.5)
"mHAWK" (2.2).

XD3 is not CRDe.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Please correct if I'm wrong.

"NEF" (2.6/2.5) - XD3P Block/SZ2600Block?
"mEAGLE" (2.5) - XD3P Block
"mHAWK" (2.2) - XD4.9P Block
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Old 17th February 2009, 10:12   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
One other point not mentioned is solid axle setups are prone to a nasty shimmy which can scare the wits out of a driver when it occurs. To those who haven't experienced it its a horrid wobble which almost feels like the wheels will come off. Jeeps are very prone to this and when this happens at a higher speed it can prove dangerous. I am sure this can be usually addressed with stabiliser links etc but to the unsuspecting driver it can be quite scary. Often the feedback lashes back through the steering and can hurt your fingers.

I am not a technical expert but some of our experts here can advice how Jeep owners can address this problem effectively.

The Shimmy/Wobble is nothing to do with Solid Axles. It depends on the knuckle design (the King-Pin Type) are more prone to wobble.
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Old 17th February 2009, 10:24   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The Shimmy/Wobble is nothing to do with Solid Axles. It depends on the knuckle design (the King-Pin Type) are more prone to wobble.
Arka some of the older cars I have have the king pin type setup and never ever experienced this. I recall the only times I experienced this was on Jeeps. I vaguely remember reading somewhere this was a peculiar problem with solid axles, will try to find that article for you.

Last edited by DKG : 17th February 2009 at 10:27.
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Old 17th February 2009, 10:29   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
One aspect not discussed so far is the superior traction IFS affords offroad. If I am doing mountain trails I'd be more comfy in a vehicle with lower unsprung weight allowing wheels to track surface independently. In solid axle setup when one wheel hits a bump the other tends to move up too as they have a rigid connection. On a gradient you are tackling sideways a wheel unsettled can trigger a loss in traction in the other causing a slide

In summary solid axles are the obvious choice for rock crawling at slow speeds but in most other conditions where you may traverse terrain at an incline or at higher speeds IFS gives you superior tractability on account of lower unsprung weight

Trucks still use solid axles as it's load bearing properties remain unrivalled
Traction = Weight (of vehicle) X Contact Patch (of Tyre) X Co-efficient of Friction(Tyre & Surface)

In an IFS setup the Weight is not all on the Tyres, the Load Bearing component take the weight i.e Torsion Bar and allows the Upper and Lower Arms to pivot/Float, guess what happens to the superior traction.

On inclines the maximum weight on the front two wheels are reduced as
1) The Vehicle is near vertical and weight is transferred to the back
2) In an IFS the weight on the front wheel is further reduced by IFS.
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Old 17th February 2009, 10:46   #45
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I remember when they put IFS on Range Rover, they also made it to have a automatic behaviour similar to solid axle in the front. It was a while ago and I think one of the reasons was that if the left wheel dropped down, the weight would transfer to the other and improve traction. Does it make sense?
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