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Old 31st March 2009, 20:39   #76
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Take a look at the Tatra, which uses a semi-solid Independent axle, with portal hubs. Its the best possible combination of independent as well as solid axles, and the portal box. Sort of like a cross between a Gaz Tigre and a Volvo C303. Besides that, its got an air-cooled V8 with independent crankshaft linkages. If one cylinder fails due to anything like a connecting rod failure, no problem, just shut the cylinder opposite to that and carry on minus 2 cylinders.
Even the Gaz(both the Tigre and the Vodnik) make use of a sort of Half solid, Half independent suspension system which works both as a smooth platform for Weapons Delivery systems, as well as a lot tougher than any independent systems available. Not to mention more initial ground clearence than independent systems.

P.S.- I wish i could locate some pictures for you, but i meet with a accident last night while on my way back from shimla on a bullet, and my bodies CV joints could not cope up with the off-road torture of 35 inchers on the gravel-pit. Told you the Dana44 in a weak axle(man, how i need the trax axles now), though this time i was lucky enough that it would just need greasing for a few weeks. All the four tires (made up of some cheap soft, probably chinese compound), lost quite a few of their threads on the rocky outbacks(though they are all repairable), but i was able to limp back home, since my puny little 4banger, though on diesel power, was still working without missing a beat. I thought it was'nt a big deal when i went to sleep, but i could only see what the real damage was until i woke up and found out that the tie-rods are unwilling to move at all, the knuckles had seized and the entire garage was filled up of the leaking fluid. Now its a bit worse since i am running out of fuel, but i'll hang on.
Looking towards the positive side, i can hang on the net throughtout, until i am off bedrest.

Forgive me, this is the best i could cope typing with my left hand index figure. Now guys, don't say i'am giving you the finger
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Old 1st April 2009, 12:24   #77
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Take care brutus..wishing you a speedy recovery. Now take rest dont give too much of effort on your left hand index finger!
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Old 1st April 2009, 14:13   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus View Post
...P.S.- I wish i could locate some pictures for you, but i meet with a accident last night while on my way back from shimla on a bullet, ....
Sorry to hear about that...do take care and rest.

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......typing with my left hand index figure. Now guys, don't say i'am giving you the finger
as long as it is the index finger, it is fine .
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Old 1st April 2009, 14:24   #79
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@ brutus, get well soon buddy.And don't stress those figures much.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 00:14   #80
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lol, thanks guys, i be fine i guess. Man, now i understand what really pain in the a$$ means. I have to use a pillow when i sit.
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Old 4th August 2009, 18:38   #81
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How does a torsion bar help/not help a 4 wheel drive vehicle for e.g a MM540
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Old 25th December 2009, 13:17   #82
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Default Ind vs solid in off road

Guys, this pic is from coorg 4x4 courage beyond fear thread. This probably explains all the above six pages why solid axle is better off road than a IFS
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Old 25th December 2009, 21:13   #83
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That jeep : IS that Bhaskar driving it?
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Old 28th December 2009, 12:45   #84
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Vinod, I feel this is a better example of live axle.




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That jeep : IS that Bhaskar driving it?
No, it is one Mr.Ponappa, his son is member Jeepdude on TBHP.
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:41   #85
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I saw somebody comment that IFS won't take as much abuse as the live axle setup. That may not be true. I put my Grand Vitara IFS suspension through lot more abuse than the Jeep, yet I have not seen any problem in two years.

The IFS will be a bit of a week link when it comes to real [serious] stuff , like rock crawling,extreme off road events, Live axle can do these thing better than Independent suspension.
But when it comes to rough roads and high speed drives on broken roads,sand etc. IFS can keep the speeds better than live axle.
Only draw back it it'll be high on maintenance compared to a LIve axle vehicle.
It'll be a better drive to the off road event .
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:58   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
The IFS will be a bit of a week link when it comes to real [serious] stuff , like rock crawling,extreme off road events, Live axle can do these thing better than Independent suspension.
But when it comes to rough roads and high speed drives on broken roads,sand etc. IFS can keep the speeds better than live axle.
Only draw back it it'll be high on maintenance compared to a LIve axle vehicle.
It'll be a better drive to the off road event .
Dinar, considering I own one 4WD with IFS and another 4WD with live axle, I am aware of the strengths and weaknesses of both the system. I was referring to the abuse taking ability, not offroading ability.

As far as offroading ability is concerned, live axle wins hands down. However abuse taking ability, I am not willing to believe live axle has an advantage.

The reason, my own experience. I drive the Grand Vitara fast on huge pot holed roads on everyday basis, for more than 2 years now. So far not a single niggle. The offroading in the Jeep generally happens in slow crawling speed, the suspension hardly encounters the high-speed jolts to the system. Still I need to tighten everything after every offroad event.

The IFS is a complex system compared to the live axle system, however that doesn't mean it is fragile compared to live axle.
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Old 7th January 2010, 17:02   #87
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@Samurai:

It is not that IFS is not off-road worthy. Many of the true 4x4s of yester years like the Landcruiser have gone to IFS up front for better high speed handling and comfort.

It is just that a live axle is a much simpler and sturdier set up with less components that can sustain potential damage. In our type of recreational off-roading you won't see any issues with IFS. However with repeated and hardcore off-road usage, IFS will be more expensive to maintain than solid axles purely because there are a number of linkages/bushes etc that will wear out over time unlike in a solid axle.

Another problem with IFS is that the front axles have a CV joint kind of set up like a FWD car. These joints are weak points in the front drive and most of the IFS 4x4 systems will not be able to take a locker up front as the front axles will break with a locker. Again for out type of recreational off-roading it may not matter. It is more for the boulder bashing kind of stuff that happens on the Rubicon trail.

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Old 7th January 2010, 17:22   #88
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Tini,

I know IFS is quite capable, we all have seen how Scorpios and Safaris have performed in various events. But live axle does have an edge over IFS in offroading, specially articulation. But in our kind of jungle trail offroading, IFS should be able to handle abuse as much as live axle setup.

I have lost U-clamps and broken leaf springs multiple times in the Jeep. But the GV which takes lot higher abuse than the Jeep, has never had any problem. I know I am comparing Suzuki IFS with Mahindra leaf spring suspension. But my question is how often have we seen modern IFS in Scorpio breakdown. I have seen rear axle breaking in 4WD Scorpio (rear leaf setup) couple of times, but never seen IFS related problems.

Last edited by Samurai : 7th January 2010 at 17:24.
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Old 7th January 2010, 18:16   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Tini,
I know I am comparing Suzuki IFS with Mahindra leaf spring suspension. But my question is how often have we seen modern IFS in Scorpio breakdown. I have seen rear axle breaking in 4WD Scorpio (rear leaf setup) couple of times, but never seen IFS related problems.
Samurai,

This is turing out to be a IFS VS live axle debate. We have a thread to it.

Anyway from what i can make out of dicussion here is that we all are aware of the IFS and live axle advantages and disadvantages. But saying IFS to be as tough as live /dead axle suspension is a mistake.

IFS of todays world are strong enough to take all that we can give them. If IFS is strong, live axle suspension are stronger. Thats why trucks have them. Plus on comparison between a Mahindra live axle VS grand vitara, do you think it will live up to what mahindra's are put through daily drive with 15 people and worst roads? This is the sole reason why Mahindra offers Maxx with both IFS and basic version comes with dead axle. Mahindra commander which encounters worst roads in rural areas have solid dead axle up front. Maintenance costs are lower and they will any day outlast an IFS.

I can see only advantage with IFS is ride and handling which weighs quite high on desireability list. For pure off roaders solid axle still rules, because of articulation reasons,they are stronger and much easier to maintain

On breaking scorpio's rear axle, axle breakage is possible on any vehicle. Type of suspension isnt responsible for it
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Old 7th January 2010, 18:47   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
IFS of todays world are strong enough to take all that we can give them. If IFS is strong, live axle suspension are stronger. Thats why trucks have them. Plus on comparison between a Mahindra live axle VS grand vitara, do you think it will live up to what mahindra's are put through daily drive with 15 people and worst roads? This is the sole reason why Mahindra offers Maxx with both IFS and basic version comes with dead axle. Mahindra commander which encounters worst roads in rural areas have solid dead axle up front. Maintenance costs are lower and they will any day outlast an IFS.
In our kind of offroad usage, where load is not really an issue, I don't think IFS would be damaged any faster than live axle.

Vinod, I am just going by my experience. I keep breaking leafs and losing U-clamps on the Jeep. GV which is lot heavier and while taking more abuse is in impeccable shape, never had a single issue.
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