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Old 21st June 2010, 11:57   #61
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Quote:
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Yes, the GB ratios are different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
The gear ratio's of 3rd gear in a 3B is same as 4th gear on a 4 speed gear box which is 1:1.
Me Bad

I stand corrected as my master has clarified above.

OK Master, then why did you goto 4 speed GB when the 3 speed was a beauty? Now you have 5 speed ones too..

OK, thinking on similar lines
Can we have a paddle shift and a close ratio 6 speed

We all know the usability of the Peugeot 2.1/2.5 as well as Mhawk, Meagle blocks.

But for the Mhawk - All the rest are not rev friendly and need serious work on the GB to achieve best results.

What say?
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Old 21st June 2010, 12:02   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Me Bad

I stand corrected as my master has clarified above.

OK Master, then why did you goto 4 speed GB when the 3 speed was a beauty? Now you have 5 speed ones too..

OK, thinking on similar lines
Can we have a paddle shift and a close ratio 6 speed

We all know the usability of the Peugeot 2.1/2.5 as well as Mhawk, Meagle blocks.

But for the Mhawk - All the rest are not rev friendly and need serious work on the GB to achieve best results.

What say?
So this is the work pressure you're talking about eh...unakku irukku maapillai...oolu vidarathu beach la kite vidara mathiriyaa...

The 5 speed BA 10's with the 4x4 TC are a rarity. Can the regular BA 10 be mapped with a T 18?

And 3 speed is a beauty only for the petrol engines. On the diesel, the ratios are very warped. They are fun indeed, but fundamentally undriveable in the city.

I should know - I beat my head with this GB/Engine combo for 2 years in Bangalore stop-go traffic. The Jeep was my ONLY vehicle.

Last edited by Red Liner : 21st June 2010 at 12:05.
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Old 21st June 2010, 17:44   #63
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My contribution to this interesting thread:
I had the same fears as most people in India who are not very familiar with 4x4's ie: shift into 4wd only when need (like crossing streams, mud etc) and shift out right after, or you will suffer windup.
Due to this, while going to Leh i never used the 4wd on my MG413 Gypsy. Being carburetted, it used to struggle going up the high passes. 1st gear, high rpm, because shifting into 2nd meant the revs died and the car bogged down (the road was really bad as well so going fast was out of the question). This of course translated into a fuel consumption of less than 7kmpl. Then one day i decided on trying out 4wd L going up Baralacha La. What a difference! whereas earlier we would struggle in 1st gear and high rpm's, now in was zipping up in 3rd gear, the engine just over idle rpm!
I have a Ford Ranger 2.5 TDCi now, and whenever i go off road, i switch to 4WD H and to 4WD L whenever needed. So, 4wd used on anything other than tarmac is ok from my experience.
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Old 21st June 2010, 23:18   #64
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
The 5 speed BA 10's with the 4x4 TC are a rarity. Can the regular BA 10 be mapped with a T 18?
Dai,

There is only one BA-10 which is 5 speed, what you drove in Munnar is a 5 speed BA-10 with T-18. Did you ever engaged 5th gear?

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 22nd June 2010, 10:22   #65
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Default Borg & Warner

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Dai,

There is only one BA-10 which is 5 speed, what you drove in Munnar is a 5 speed BA-10 with T-18. Did you ever engaged 5th gear?

Thanks
--Sree--
Dai, Dai, Dai,

There are 3 BA10 4WDs, one with T-18 T-Case and another with the Borg-Warner Manual and Another with Borg-Warner Electric Shift

Regards,

Arka
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Old 22nd June 2010, 10:32   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Dai,

There is only one BA-10 which is 5 speed, what you drove in Munnar is a 5 speed BA-10 with T-18. Did you ever engaged 5th gear?

Thanks
--Sree--
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Dai, Dai, Dai,

There are 3 BA10 4WDs, one with T-18 T-Case and another with the Borg-Warner Manual and Another with Borg-Warner Electric Shift

Regards,

Arka


My question then is simple. Can I take a BA 10 GB from a Bolero and mate with my "existing" double lever T-18? Is it a straight and simple fit?

Sree, i engaged 5th gear on highway and felt the need for a 6th when you were not looking
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Old 22nd June 2010, 12:19   #67
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Dai, Dai, Dai,

There are 3 BA10 4WDs, one with T-18 T-Case and another with the Borg-Warner Manual and Another with Borg-Warner Electric Shift

Regards,

Arka
Saaar, i was talking about the gearbox, not the transfercase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post


My question then is simple. Can I take a BA 10 GB from a Bolero and mate with my "existing" double lever T-18? Is it a straight and simple fit?
Technically yes, but it is not easy as yours is a SWB and BA-10 is a long gearbox. BTW New gen Bolero comes with NGT520/530.

--Sree--
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Old 22nd June 2010, 15:47   #68
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Sree, i engaged 5th gear on highway and felt the need for a 6th when you were not looking
What about 7th and 8th Gears da?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
BTW New gen Bolero comes with NGT520/530.
The NGT 520/530 is not great apart from synchro in 1st gear. The Gear travels leave a lot to be desired!
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Old 22nd June 2010, 15:53   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
The NGT 520/530 is not great apart from synchro in 1st gear. The Gear travels leave a lot to be desired!
Even BA-10 has Synchro in 1st gear. Have you driven any vehicle with BA-10? Is the travel very bad comparing to BA-10? As far as i know, at least the outer dimension and cast is same as BA-10 for NGT 530/520. But cast iron instead of aluminum.

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 22nd June 2010, 16:01   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Dai,

There is only one BA-10 which is 5 speed, what you drove in Munnar is a 5 speed BA-10 with T-18. Did you ever engaged 5th gear?

Thanks
--Sree--
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Dai, Dai, Dai,

There are 3 BA10 4WDs, one with T-18 T-Case and another with the Borg-Warner Manual and Another with Borg-Warner Electric Shift

Regards,

Arka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post


My question then is simple. Can I take a BA 10 GB from a Bolero and mate with my "existing" double lever T-18? Is it a straight and simple fit?

Sree, i engaged 5th gear on highway and felt the need for a 6th when you were not looking
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Saaar, i was talking about the gearbox, not the transfercase.



Technically yes, but it is not easy as yours is a SWB and BA-10 is a long gearbox. BTW New gen Bolero comes with NGT520/530.

--Sree--
Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
What about 7th and 8th Gears da?



The NGT 520/530 is not great apart from synchro in 1st gear. The Gear travels leave a lot to be desired!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Even BA-10 has Synchro in 1st gear. Have you driven any vehicle with BA-10? Is the travel very bad comparing to BA-10? As far as i know, at least the outer dimension and cast is same as BA-10 for NGT 530/520. But cast iron instead of aluminum.

Thanks
--Sree--
Respected and Knowledgeable Saars: Does any of this mean that I can drive a 3 speed CJ3B in 3L off the tarmac all day long without messing up my diffs and clutch?
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Old 22nd June 2010, 16:04   #71
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I have not driven a vehicle with BA10 - Hence cant answer your question - Sorry!
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Old 22nd June 2010, 16:05   #72
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Does any of this mean that I can drive a 3 speed CJ3B in 3L off the tarmac all day long without messing up my diffs and clutch?

Yes You can But not on HARD surfaces!
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Old 22nd June 2010, 19:39   #73
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Dear Genesis - the answer to your question is "yes", provided you are off tarmac, but my answer must be implemented in perspective. Look at the situation on the ground. Will you need "backup"? (means low 2nd or low 1st), then continue to drive in the required gear in low range which is 1:1 for 3 speed as well as 4 speed transmissions and is 4th gear in 5 speed transmissions. In any case, it does not take more than 2 seconds to either enter into low range or leave low range. I hope it clarifies.

Dear Shahnawaz - Thank you for your reply. I appreciate.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 1st October 2013, 12:47   #74
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Default Low-Ratio

Quoting Nilanjanray from

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...ml#post3253433 (Seven Fortuners, One Land Rover & Rajmachi Revisited)

What "class" does the Fortuner fit into?

A heavy fulltime, LWB 4WD with good torque and power - somewhat different from the nimble Jeeps and Gypsys. That is the difference I was implying when I meant 'different class'. Without getting into relative BHP/ton or Nm/ton comparisons.

What are its own (peculiar) characteristics off-road?
Fulltime 4WD with Torsen LSD which takes care of mild offroading situations? A handy torque curve with a long flat plateau? Decent ability to crawl up sometimes without 4L because of the early and nice torque that kicks in? Stock Dunlop tyres that suck in mud and other slippery conditions? 880NM peak torque b/w 1400-3400RPM in low range?

What is 1st gear Ratio of the Fortuner?
4.313

What is the T-Case Ratio in the Fortuner?
2.566

What is the Final Drive/Differential Ratio in the Fortuner?
39.65

Why Does the 4x4 Fortuner have a Transfer Case?
?? What's the meaning of this question? I would summarize it like this: "low range to be used as and when necessary". And we were discussing whether necessary = always in offroad situations or sometimes, as needed.

What is the Kerb Weight of the Fortuner?
1.97 tons I believe. I might have to lift it during my squatting sessions to confirm that for you, since you are asking so many questions
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Nilanjan,

The Crawl Ratio of the Fortuner would be
4.313 X 2.566 X 3.965= 43.88:1

multiply it with the Torque in Kgm = 43.88 X 34.3 = 1505.12Kgm (Geared Torque)

Divide the vehicle weight by the Geared Torque = 1955kg/1505kgm= or 1.29:1 is the weight (Kerb) to geared torque ratio.

Please calculate this without low ratio. = 379kgm (Geared)

1955kg/379kgm = 5.1:1 Weight (Kerb) to Torque Ratio (geared)

Why do you need this additional torque?

On Road a vehicle exerts about 10% of its weight, that is why we can push a vehicle.

Can you push the Fortuner up a small hump/Ramp? No, that is because of Resistance from the Grade/Slope.

Similarly can you push the fortuner on the Beach? No, that is because of Resistance from the Surface.

Now imagine pushing the Fortuner up a sandy slope, you will have 2 types of resistance.

This may not be enough for the High Ratio.

Low Ratio improves control (Crawl Speed) and increase torque at the Wheels.

Some Heavy 4x4 don't have 4H but have 4L. (Steyr-Puch T-Cases; Tata 407, TMB IIRC Tata 713 LPTA)

The reason is once you engage 4H, you might as well engage 4L and work the Main Gear Box.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 1st October 2013, 13:00   #75
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Default Re: Using 4L for all offroading needs... good or bad?

To add to the above. Torque is also a function of available traction. If the surface is slippery, the engine will supply just enough torque to get the wheels spinning. Additional torque can be harnessed only by improving the traction.
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