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Old 1st October 2010, 15:14   #211
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What i understood was, there is a reason why steering arm is attached to the tie end arms, and at a certain angle. To retain these angles one needs to move the tie end arms also up. There are small small issues wrt handling which can come up if not adhered to this.

Might not be relevant in OTR's or even during our moderate driving speeds. But definitely can cause negative handling during spirited driving. This is what Khan was trying to explain using ackerman and pac mans

EDIT: Things like this

Last edited by Jaggu : 1st October 2010 at 15:16.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 11:51   #212
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Might not be relevant in OTR's or even during our moderate driving speeds. But definitely can cause negative handling during spirited driving.
Infact, stock setup is superb for spirited driving and mild OTRs. That is why the gypsies were the preferred choice in most rallies in India until better vehicles came along!!

A gypsy in 2WD has amazing handling which few cars match! But SPOA and other mods done has a negative impact for the above!

Infact they are not to be compared at all!
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Old 3rd October 2010, 16:50   #213
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It should be interesting to see what the near future holds for us with "fly-by-wire" steering technologies coming into the market. With no direct physical link between steering wheel and road wheels, it's a whole new cricket match, lift-wise.
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Old 5th October 2010, 08:11   #214
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It should be interesting to see what the near future holds for us with "fly-by-wire" steering technologies coming into the market. With no direct physical link between steering wheel and road wheels, it's a whole new cricket match, lift-wise.
Yup Ken,

I saw a Mahindra Scorpio last Auto Expo with such a steering system.
Ofcourse could not drive one to know how it feels. But a whole lot of auto component vendors will go out of business
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Old 5th October 2010, 21:47   #215
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That is why the gypsies were the preferred choice in most rallies in India until better vehicles came along!!
I think Gypsy is still a preferred choice when it comes to rallies which have tough terrain. In this years Raid -de - himalaya, Moghul Rally, and Desert Storm, gypsy rules.

In recent times, people are trying with GV, etc. BUt the results are no where near the Gypsies.
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Old 7th October 2010, 09:27   #216
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Quote:
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Yup Ken,
I saw a Mahindra Scorpio last Auto Expo with such a steering system.
Scorpio with fly by wire steering? What will be its benefits over normal mechanical steering setup? Any worst case scenarios?

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Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
I think Gypsy is still a preferred choice when it comes to rallies which have tough terrain. In this years Raid -de - himalaya, Moghul Rally, and Desert Storm, gypsy rules.

In recent times, people are trying with GV, etc. BUt the results are no where near the Gypsies.
Gypsies are King of Indian rallies. They are lighter, 4WD, they jump like crazy & still goes fast.
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Old 7th October 2010, 12:11   #217
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Scorpio with fly by wire steering? What will be its benefits over normal mechanical steering setup? Any worst case scenarios?
Benefits will be lesser manufacturing costs as a lot of parts need not be a part of the BOM.

One also includes more electronics to work with the car. Hence you can tune the sensitivity of the steering with the road speed.

Worst case scenario - simple: One can turn the steering wheel and the vehicle does not turn
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Old 1st February 2011, 18:26   #218
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

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Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
1. Rear CFL shattered into 2 piece.
Bring it on guys.

I guess you are talking about this CFL shattering event, IMHO CFL is not suggested for OTR environment. I may be wrong but what has happen to SwastikVijai's Gypsy shows that if you modify and/or add addtional weight to your vehicle than the capacity of the CFL there is no way you can alter and make it working for your mods.

Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-29012011001.jpg

Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-29012011.jpg

In other way, I also feel CFL cannot take the beat from hardcore(?) offroading events.

Not to forget the steel leaf springs inserted in the same gypsy also twisted on the same day. May be experts could through more light on that incident.
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Old 1st February 2011, 23:08   #219
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

Hi Siva,
My CFL Braking is not Because of Quality of CFL, I think its only because of my negligence, Khan told me to fix Traction bar when i fitted Crawlers in my Gypsy, i neglected it, now we know what is Axle wrap and How much Torque my gypsy is producing,

All this things i know very well, i done the same trial in same gypsy with 235 trepedors, once i replaced them with 31" tires my leafs gone to a toss, the reason behind my theory is after replacing CFL with Stock leafs by Arka, my gypsy completed only Robi's climb, immediately after that metal leafs also twisted,
Attached Thumbnails
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_6810.jpg  

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Old 1st February 2011, 23:26   #220
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

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Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi Siva,
My CFL Braking is not Because of Quality of CFL, I think its only because of my negligence, Khan told me to fix Traction bar when i fitted Crawlers in my Gypsy, i neglected it, now we know what is Axle wrap and How much Torque my gypsy is producing,

All this things i know very well, i done the same trial in same gypsy with 235 trepedors, once i replaced them with 31" tires my leafs gone to a toss, the reason behind my theory is after replacing CFL with Stock leafs by Arka, my gypsy completed only Robi's climb, immediately after that metal leafs also twisted,


Viji Sir, I agree with you to an extent. However the point here is even if the stock leaf twisted we had an option to tow or move the vehicle, but in case of CFL it was broken into pieces requiring on the spot replacement.

I'm sure the traction bar solution is a fix, however considering the above point I have posted IMHO the steel leafs are superior and rigid compare to the CFL. Not to ignore CFL brings in some good cushion to the passenger inside the vehicle.

Last edited by trammway : 1st February 2011 at 23:27.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 07:58   #221
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

Viji, doberman isnt SPOA'd right? Why does it need traction bar then? Could it be some other issue?
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Old 2nd February 2011, 08:10   #222
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Viji, doberman isnt SPOA'd right? Why does it need traction bar then? Could it be some other issue?
It has Shackle lift and is running 4.9:1 crawler GB. Hence the strain on the drive-train is higher.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 10:15   #223
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
It has Shackle lift and is running 4.9:1 crawler GB. Hence the strain on the drive-train is higher.
Slightly OT: Is that the dog bone shackles fabricated by Swastikviji? Are these also responsible for additional strain on drivetrain apart from the crawler set?

Last edited by Kandisa : 2nd February 2011 at 10:24.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 10:24   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi Siva,
My CFL Braking is not Because of Quality of CFL, I think its only because of my negligence, Khan told me to fix Traction bar when i fitted Crawlers in my Gypsy, i neglected it, now we know what is Axle wrap and How much Torque my gypsy is producing,

All this things i know very well, i done the same trial in same gypsy with 235 trepedors, once i replaced them with 31" tires my leafs gone to a toss, the reason behind my theory is after replacing CFL with Stock leafs by Arka, my gypsy completed only Robi's climb, immediately after that metal leafs also twisted,
Hi Viji,

The Axle-Wrap is due to the Shackle Lift, further aggravated by the Crawlers Gears (More Torque) and Heavier Tyres (31")

Please do the following
i) Custom Leaf Pack (Military Wrap/Double Main Leaf)
ii) Traction Bar

You have a superb Gypsy, with the works, the suspension is 2 days work.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Please, Please fit a full-size spare, enhances the looks, and is the last attention to detail.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 10:46   #225
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Default Re: Bangalore Aavalakonda Annual OTR 2011 | Participants Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
It has Shackle lift and is running 4.9:1 crawler GB. Hence the strain on the drive-train is higher.

OFF TOPIC :

I agree with you headers sir . One question , my MG410 is undergoing a 1.6 conversion , shackle lift (same as Vijay sir's) and 235 size MTs . Does my gypsy need a traction bar?

Last edited by karizma9292 : 2nd February 2011 at 10:48.
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