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Old 12th March 2009, 01:30   #16
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Best of luck Shahnawaz! This is going to be a tricky one.
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:22   #17
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Shahnawaz, best of luck in your SPOA. Why don't you increase the length of your prop shaft instead of using spacers. In India, that might make more sense.
If there is any way I can help let me know.
My friend owns the biggest auto parts store in Madurai and another, the largest used jeep goods store down South.
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:50   #18
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All the best shanawaz. All set for extreme offroading, maruti guys need to analyse your gypsy mate so if they have any plan to upgrade gypsy.
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Old 12th March 2009, 10:28   #19
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Default SPOA - Problems

Hi Shahnawaz,

Let me list out few of the problems associated with SPOA & their correction.

1) Prop Shafts - Go in for new i.e. longer prop shafts.

2) Steering -
i) Get the Knuckle Arm of a WW2 JEEP and match it to the Gypsy Kingpin Knuckle, to retain OEM Steering angle aka Hi-Steer.

ii) The Z-Link makes steering very vague i.e. Mansoor's MM540 in Munnar.

iii) In case of a Z-Link attach the Steering Stabilizer on the Diff-Tube to the Longer Drag Link aka Balance Rod/Link

3) Pinion Angle & Axle Wrap
i) Setting the Pinion Angle is not a problem.

ii) The Spring will flex under load (acceleration) thereby changing the pinion angle, in OTR this will result in the Axle Breaking (SPOA MM540 in Munnar)

iii) To counter the above you have to Fabricate a Traction Bar/Ladder bar.
To prevent the Pinion Angle from changing, yet allowing the Leaf Spring to flex. THIS IS A MUST.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 12th March 2009, 11:10   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
where do the spacers go? on the flange that connects the shaft to the diff?
  • You also need to look into the tilt angle of the prop which is going to be larger than before. Higher angles can result in premature failure.
Yes, if spacers are used, they will go on the flange.

You are spot on about the tilt angle on the prop. However, I will just have 4" of lift (max) with this mod. anything below 8" is manageable (but still the tilt angle needs to be taken into account and addressed)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
..Why don't you increase the length of your prop shaft instead of using spacers. In India, that might make more sense.
If there is any way I can help let me know.
Yes. That's an option. Will decide either way once we find out what the amount of 'extension required'. Which vehicles prop shaft do you suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1) Prop Shafts - Go in for new i.e. longer prop shafts.
Yes. would be an option. However, I know of people who have been running spacers for more than 10 years now with no issues. But yes, longer prop shaft is the best option. I agree.

Again, Which vehicles prop shaft do you suggest?

Quote:
2) Steering -
i) Get the Knuckle Arm of a WW2 JEEP and match it to the Gypsy Kingpin Knuckle, to retain OEM Steering angle aka Hi-Steer.

ii) The Z-Link makes steering very vague i.e. Mansoor's MM540 in Munnar.

iii) In case of a Z-Link attach the Steering Stabilizer on the Diff-Tube to the Longer Drag Link aka Balance Rod/Link
You have nailed down the issues spot on. Even for me, z-link would be thelast option and at best a temporary solution for the time being (if at all I go for it). I have read & heard enough horror stories about the 'death-link' on trails.

My ideal scenario would be Hi-Steer (OTT). Would either search for a knuckle arm or get one custom fabricated.

Quote:
3) Pinion Angle & Axle Wrap
.... iii) To counter the above you have to Fabricate a Traction Bar/Ladder bar.
To prevent the Pinion Angle from changing, yet allowing the Leaf Spring to flex. THIS IS A MUST.....
Yes, traction bar is literally a MUST and I will get it done later for sure. Not right now. I want to check it without the same as my lift will NOT be an extreme one. For extreme lifts it is a MUST


PS: Guys, thanks for all the inputs.

Cheers,
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Old 12th March 2009, 11:46   #21
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Default Axle Wrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Yes, traction bar is literally a MUST and I will get it done later for sure. Not right now. I want to check it without the same as my lift will NOT be an extreme one. For extreme lifts it is a MUST Cheers,
Hi Shahnawaz,

How would you prevent Axle Wrap in your current modification.

Axle Wrap is caused by the Location of the Diff (SPOA) wrt the Leaf Springs
and by Softer Leaf Springs i.e. even vehicles with SUA and very soft leafs will also suffer axle wrap.

Check the 4WD with SPOA rear axle.
i) Gurkha - Anti-Roll Bar & Traction Bar Design
ii) Ford Endy - Anti-Roll Bar helps as a Traction Bar

Regards,

Arka
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Old 12th March 2009, 12:18   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
... Yes, traction bar is literally a MUST and I will get it done later for sure. Not right now. I want to check it without the same as my lift will NOT be an extreme one. For extreme lifts it is a MUST....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
... How would you prevent Axle Wrap in your current modification....
I fully agree to what you are saying and it's importance. It's just that I won't have it on day/week 1 after SPOA is done -- Just to check how it behaves without the traction bar. Anyways I won't be doing any high revving sand/mud in next few weeks so that also should help. I have read/heard about lots of Samurai's without the traction bar in the SPOA setup running fine -- but yes they do after some time get the traction bar done.

After a couple of weeks I will get the traction bar done -- FOR SURE.


Also, just noticed that the chandigarh OTR had this Gypsy which is SPOA.

Also, have a look at it's steering


Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th March 2009 at 12:32.
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Old 12th March 2009, 13:11   #23
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Shanawaz - this gypsy belongs to Allan (xtreme power on Tbhp). I drove it on the highway and also saw it perform on the OTR. It was superb!

Allan has got the work done himself. He has done custom lifts and extreme 4x4 mods on many on his vehicles like range rovers and land rovers. If you contact him he should be able to send you detailed pics.

Cheers
Ankit

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
...
Also, just noticed that the chandigarh OTR had this Gypsy which is SPOA.

Also, have a look at it's steering

Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th March 2009 at 13:26. Reason: removed picture from message quote
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Old 14th March 2009, 20:39   #24
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Default Work Started

Friends,

The work has started today and here is the progress report.

Only some 25% of the work has been done till now and only the front axle has been touched till now.


Dis assembly in progress
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1184.jpg

The front propeller shaft comes out
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1192.jpg

Notice the SPUA setup here.
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1197.jpg

The front diff housing etc come off.
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1199.jpg

The spring perches are chiseled off
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1201.jpg

This is how the perch looks like
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1202.jpg

The Gypsy -- waiting for SPoA
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1203.jpg

Some grinding work going on -- cutting damper bolts from plates
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1207.jpg

SPOA begins here.
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1209.jpg

Both leaf springs now over the axle
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1210.jpg

U-Botls being put in place
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1214.jpg

This is how it looks till now:
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-img_1218.jpg


Lots and lots of work still to be done. Now there is no turning back

The only drawback -- it's office next week and I can't be there to see what's happening and would only see completed work/stages. But I know that folks in Suraksha are competent and would do a great job.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 14th March 2009 at 20:49.
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Old 14th March 2009, 20:57   #25
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Excellent. Best of luck for this new project. Seems to be coming really well. Cheers!!!
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Old 14th March 2009, 21:59   #26
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Dear khan,
All the best with your SPOA setup. You are slowly addressing all the traditonal drawbacks of a Gypsy, while retaining its superior features! We have a SPOA Gypsy in Chennai, i didnt find much improvement in axle flex after this set up. The culprit may be hard springs that were not flexing completely. The rampover angle advantage was obvious and will now beat even Cj3b. Gypsy even in stock condition has one of the best rampover angle advantage.

Your guide on Gypsy upgrade is one and only one of its kind. Great job

p.s few pics of a sample SPOA gypsy in chennai.
Attached Thumbnails
Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-19102008666.jpg  

Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-19102008667.jpg  

Gypsy on Steroids -- The SPoA Project.  EDIT: Stage-2 Started now..-19102008672.jpg  

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Old 15th March 2009, 02:56   #27
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Such a great pictoral explanation Khan_S!

Looking forward to more -- since you wont be around, try and get a service manager to take step-by-step pictures for us if possible

cya
R
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Old 15th March 2009, 06:58   #28
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Quote:
khan_sultan : The only drawback -- it's office next week and I can't be there to see what's happening and would only see completed work/stages.
@Khan saab, Why didn't you schedule a vacation while the work is being done ? Not about supervising Surakshaa guys, but to see how it is done - and share it with us ?
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Old 15th March 2009, 08:38   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
... We have a SPOA Gypsy in Chennai, i didnt find much improvement in axle flex after this set up. The culprit may be hard springs that were not flexing completely. ....
Thanks Vinod. It's surprising that the SPOA Gypsy did not articulate/flex. The culprit in my opinion could be the 'stock dampers' that would be used. They limit the flex in a SPOA setup -- that's what I have heard all over in international Samurai forums.

I have read about OME leafs being used -- and they are much much harder then the stock and I have seen pictures/videos of them articulating a LOT.

But hey, it's soooo nice to see so many examples of SPOA Gypsy's. In last week I have seen/read/heard about atleast 5-6 such gypsy's.

Check out the articulation/flex here (just 2 simple samles):

http://zukiworld.com/month_010105/im...lex2_thumb.jpg

Bolton SPOA for Suzuki Samurai


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
... Looking forward to more -- since you wont be around, try and get a service manager to take step-by-step pictures for us if possible ...
Yes. I have asked the SA to do so and he has agreed -- let's see if he remembers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
...Why didn't you schedule a vacation while the work is being done ? Not about supervising Surakshaa guys, but to see how it is done - and share it with us ?
He he he.. I wish. 2 issues:

- My wife will kill me for taking a vacation just for this

- My boss will fire me for sure. This is the only excuse he would need.

and then i would become a 'Gypsy' for sure -- looking for a place to stay & a job

Cheers,
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Old 15th March 2009, 09:29   #30
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There's a Gypsy village in Thailand as per mthai.

After all this, will you sit higher than me in the Safari? I hope not - I still want to be able to look down at the rest of you
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