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Old 2nd August 2011, 00:08   #136
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
The base car would be a 1.3 Carb and the Engine is a Euro III Baleno with ECU and wiring. There are problems with the cam position sensors apparently on many cars with the Baleno ECU and wiring & RPM fluctuation problem. Another way to go about it using the Gypsy Wiring and ECU along with the gypsy cam position sensor so that the meters work and also there are no problems in the RPM fluctuation.

Looking for more inputs.
If you want to use Gypsy wiring and ECU, then you may have to use the Gypsy head also. Thats bcoz Gypsy uses a distributor for ignition while in Baleno there is distributorless electronic ignition. OR If you can fit the Gypsy distributor onto the Baleno head then you can use it.

Three options for you to take now
1. Baleno (Head+Wiring+ECU) (Wiring part is PAIN, trust me, Been There Done That)
2. Baleno Head + Gypsy (Distributor+Wiring+ECU) (feasibility not known)
3. Gypsy (Head+Wiring+ECU) (Technically easiest option)

The option you take depends upon
a. Your accessibility to parts.
b. Your budget.
c. Yours brain's ability to take this .
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:26   #137
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by autoholic View Post
If you want to use Gypsy wiring and ECU, then you may have to use the Gypsy head also. Thats bcoz Gypsy uses a distributor for ignition while in Baleno there is distributorless electronic ignition. OR If you can fit the Gypsy distributor onto the Baleno head then you can use it.

Three options for you to take now
1. Baleno (Head+Wiring+ECU) (Wiring part is PAIN, trust me, Been There Done That)
2. Baleno Head + Gypsy (Distributor+Wiring+ECU) (feasibility not known)
3. Gypsy (Head+Wiring+ECU) (Technically easiest option)

The option you take depends upon
a. Your accessibility to parts.
b. Your budget.
c. Yours brain's ability to take this .
I would personally go for Option one. But i need to kn ow are people who have used Baleno Wiring and ECM on their gypsy's have any RPM fluctuation problems. I would anyway invest in a new wiring harness. I have a EURO III engine and ECM. All sensors are intact and are not broken.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 11:26   #138
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
I would personally go for Option one. But i need to kn ow are people who have used Baleno Wiring and ECM on their gypsy's have any RPM fluctuation problems. I would anyway invest in a new wiring harness. I have a EURO III engine and ECM. All sensors are intact and are not broken.
I have Baleno Wiring And ECU (Euro III) in my Gypsy and No, I dont have any RPM fluctuation problem. I am using only the Baleno Engine Wiring, the rest of the wiring is Gypsy's.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 13:13   #139
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by autoholic View Post
I have Baleno Wiring And ECU (Euro III) in my Gypsy and No, I dont have any RPM fluctuation problem. I am using only the Baleno Engine Wiring, the rest of the wiring is Gypsy's.
Are all your instruments working and accurately? Whats the base car you used? 1.0, 1.3 carb or 1.3 MPFI ? How much have you used it on 4L? Do you have overheating issues?
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Old 3rd August 2011, 13:39   #140
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Are all your instruments working and accurately? Whats the base car you used? 1.0, 1.3 carb or 1.3 MPFI ? How much have you used it on 4L? Do you have overheating issues?
Yes all the instruments are working accurately.

Base Used - 1.3CARB

Haven't used in on 4L till now.

No overheating problem till now. The fact is I havn't driven much after conversion, only 400kms appx. Also I have an electric fan on a stock Gypsy radiator.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 14:40   #141
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

Hi guys, seems like there are a fair few knowledgeable gentlemen out here with regards to the gypsy. So hopefully my question can be answered. here is my situation:

I am planning to buy a Gypsy MG413W Carb and have found a few. My question is if i want to convert it to an MPFI (via engine swap) later on, will i have to change the gearbox and the drive axles as well?

I am not sure but i read on this forum that with the MG410w, converting it to a MGF13W mpfi will require changing gearbox and axle change as well. Is that true or did i read wrong?
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Old 3rd August 2011, 16:41   #142
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by autoholic View Post
Yes all the instruments are working accurately.

Base Used - 1.3CARB

Haven't used in on 4L till now.

No overheating problem till now. The fact is I havn't driven much after conversion, only 400kms appx. Also I have an electric fan on a stock Gypsy radiator.
Did you use a adapter plate between the engine and gearbox or is it a direct fit fit some additional holes drilled in ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Hi guys, seems like there are a fair few knowledgeable gentlemen out here with regards to the gypsy. So hopefully my question can be answered. here is my situation:

I am planning to buy a Gypsy MG413W Carb and have found a few. My question is if i want to convert it to an MPFI (via engine swap) later on, will i have to change the gearbox and the drive axles as well?

I am not sure but i read on this forum that with the MG410w, converting it to a MGF13W mpfi will require changing gearbox and axle change as well. Is that true or did i read wrong?
If you pick up a 413W carb you don'[t need to change the Gear box or the Differentials. You just need the MPFI engine, Engine wiring and ECM. If you your base vehicle is 410W then you need to change the T case, Gear box and differentials.
I see you are from Siliguri, how much can you get 413W carb version gypsy's for their ?
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Old 3rd August 2011, 21:21   #143
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post



If you pick up a 413W carb you don'[t need to change the Gear box or the Differentials. You just need the MPFI engine, Engine wiring and ECM. If you your base vehicle is 410W then you need to change the T case, Gear box and differentials.
I see you are from Siliguri, how much can you get 413W carb version gypsy's for their ?
Thank you for your swift reply. The carb ones you get here start from 1.6 lakhs going up to 3-3.5 for the MPFI ones. Though i have not personally seen a MPFI as it is out of my budget, thats the range this guy at Mahindra first choice told me. He also told me quite a few used gypsys from sikkim get sold in siliguri.

There seems to be a fair few mg410w's here, but sad to say most gypsys for sale here have been modified to have a tin top with a 3rd door (absolutely not what i want).

I have got a few leads from online car sale portals about gypsys in kolkata as well. If i see anything at an interesting price point then i am seriously considering heading down there in the very near future. Since your location states kol, any advice on specific areas i should be visiting if i am in kol?

Last edited by amrisharm : 3rd August 2011 at 21:22.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 21:43   #144
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Thank you for your swift reply. The carb ones you get here start from 1.6 lakhs going up to 3-3.5 for the MPFI ones. Though i have not personally seen a MPFI as it is out of my budget, thats the range this guy at Mahindra first choice told me. He also told me quite a few used gypsys from sikkim get sold in siliguri.

There seems to be a fair few mg410w's here, but sad to say most gypsys for sale here have been modified to have a tin top with a 3rd door (absolutely not what i want).

I have got a few leads from online car sale portals about gypsys in kolkata as well. If i see anything at an interesting price point then i am seriously considering heading down there in the very near future. Since your location states kol, any advice on specific areas i should be visiting if i am in kol?
1.3 cars are very hard to come by in Calcutta. All the cars that are for sale on the web are all MG 410(W)'s. The major problem in Calcutta is that the cops are very strict about out station cars being used and fine you at every opportunity and also may result in the car being impounded and then a huge fine and bribe to get it out and then transfer again. The next best option is to pickup a ARMY DISPOSAL from panagarh. You can then do it up your own way unless you find some good 413 from a tea garden in Darjeeling or Gangtok.
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Old 4th August 2011, 09:26   #145
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Did you use a adapter plate between the engine and gearbox or is it a direct fit fit some additional holes drilled in ?
Mating of engine and gearbox done by Amanpreet of AutoAttitudes. No adapter plate is used, but a couple of studs are welded onto the engine block for the bottom two bolts. You can get details from Aman.
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Old 4th August 2011, 11:55   #146
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

@ Autoholic, When are you going to publish pictures of your mod work. Please do so. I guess you can start a new thread on it and not hijack Sree's Falcon thread
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Old 4th August 2011, 20:39   #147
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@ Autoholic, When are you going to publish pictures of your mod work. Please do so. I guess you can start a new thread on it and not hijack Sree's Falcon thread
Not hijacking Sree's Falcon.

My project got delayed again bcoz of extremely busy schedule. If no other work comes up then it should be up and running before 13th August.
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Old 12th August 2011, 21:43   #148
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

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Not hijacking Sree's Falcon.

My project got delayed again bcoz of extremely busy schedule. If no other work comes up then it should be up and running before 13th August.
What's the status? Is your car ready? Tell me one more thing, how have you'll gone about the wiring from the ECU to the fuse box, ignition switch, light switch etc? Baleno wiring modified or gypsy modified? Also is the OBD-II port a part of the instrument cluster wiring which is the same that is used from the ECU to the fuse box? Pics please or a thread in which you are posting the updates?
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Old 13th August 2011, 12:39   #149
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
What's the status? Is your car ready? Tell me one more thing, how have you'll gone about the wiring from the ECU to the fuse box, ignition switch, light switch etc? Baleno wiring modified or gypsy modified? Also is the OBD-II port a part of the instrument cluster wiring which is the same that is used from the ECU to the fuse box? Pics please or a thread in which you are posting the updates?
My car is still pending the paint job. Engine , mechanicals and electrics are up and running fully. No time for starting a thread now, but surely will.

I am using the Baleno engine wiring and the complete gypsy wiring. These two wiring have been joined by use of a coupler from the old damaged Baleno wiring.(I had a complete badly damaged Baleno wiring.)

For doing it my way you should have the complete wiring diagrams of both Baleno and Gypsy (Both euro III). Mainly the part where it shows the pinouts of the ECMs, i.e., from which pin what signal is given out or received from a sensor. Apparently the ECM couplers of Euro III Baleno and Euro III Gypsy are the same(I may add Wagon R and Swift Euro III ECMs also has the same couplers). They MAY have the same ECU, albeit with a slightly different programming / maps.

In the Baleno main engine wiring there are two couplers that go into the ECM, a big fuse/relay box and another coupler to the rest of the wiring. The two couplers to the ECM are left as it is and connected to the ECM. Now in joining the Baleno and Gypsy wirings, the wiring diagrams comes into play. Of the four coupler points on the ECM, only three are used, two by the engine wiring and the third by the main chassis wiring with signals for combi meter,A/C etc. Two thirds of your work is already done by the engine wiring. If you understand this one single line "GIVE THE ECM WHAT IT WANTS AND SEND WHAT IT GIVE TO ITS CORRECT DESTINATION", then it wont be difficult for you.

As I worked on the wiring alone, it took me 5 days and nights to complete it with no help from anybody. I ate, slept and worked in the same room for five days. Could have done that in half the time if I had had a helper. I checked every connection over and over till the time I was convinced it was theoretically correct. One wrong connection could have resulted in loss of parts worth 50K or more. The engine started without any hiccups on the first crank. The highlights of my wiring are
1. Easily removable because of use of couplers.
2. Retained the big fuse+relay box for added safety.
3. Wiring for radiator fan built-in, switched by signal from ECM.
4. Wiring for Air conditioner built-in, as in the Baleno(via ECM).
5. No big lumps of Baleno combi meter wiring inside dash board.
6. As the main wiring is Gypsy's own, so very very easy to fit.
7. Added wiring for a surprise addition, a T-Bhp first, EPS. ( After having driven WagonR for 3years on Delhi roads, I confess to be an EPS addict now. My Baleno and OHC, both have HPS but I feel more comfort in driving WagonR(steering wise). And the same goes for my Gypsy now.)

About OBD II Port. The port which you see in either Baleno or Gypsy, only LOOKS like OBD II and doesnt work like one. The port is there in the Gypsy wiring and proper connections as per Baleno wiring have been done, but not checked with the Suzuki scan tool.

Sorry, have not clicked any pics of the vehicle till now.
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Old 13th August 2011, 16:30   #150
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Default Re: Project MG 416 W

Quote:
Originally Posted by autoholic View Post

I am using the Baleno engine wiring and the complete gypsy wiring. These two wiring have been joined by use of a coupler from the old damaged Baleno wiring.(I had a complete badly damaged Baleno wiring.)
Now here when you say you used the complete gypsy wiring, do you mean to say all the wiring expect the engine wiring right?

Quote:


For doing it my way you should have the complete wiring diagrams of both Baleno and Gypsy (Both euro III). Mainly the part where it shows the pinouts of the ECMs, i.e., from which pin what signal is given out or received from a sensor. Apparently the ECM couplers of Euro III Baleno and Euro III Gypsy are the same(I may add Wagon R and Swift Euro III ECMs also has the same couplers). They MAY have the same ECU, albeit with a slightly different programming / maps.
Can you share the wiring diagrams either here on the email ? Do you have the part number for the Baleno EuroIII workshop manual ?

Quote:
In the Baleno main engine wiring there are two couplers that go into the ECM, a big fuse/relay box and another coupler to the rest of the wiring. The two couplers to the ECM are left as it is and connected to the ECM. Now in joining the Baleno and Gypsy wirings, the wiring diagrams comes into play. Of the four coupler points on the ECM, only three are used, two by the engine wiring and the third by the main chassis wiring with signals for combi meter,A/C etc. Two thirds of your work is already done by the engine wiring. If you understand this one single line "GIVE THE ECM WHAT IT WANTS AND SEND WHAT IT GIVE TO ITS CORRECT DESTINATION", then it wont be difficult for you.
I understand that. Now the engine wiring that i have has 3 couplers, two go into the ECM and the third one is much bigger perhaps connects to the wiring that feeds the fuse box, meters, and other components on the Dash board.The wiring and has some cutting and taping done on it and i am going to use a brand new wiring and will discard the existing one.

Now the third coupler that you talk about which is the one i talk of also is the one you had to modifiy? I have this third coupler wiring missing, so do you suggest i buy a new gypsy wiring and buy a used Baleno wiring to do this modification of the couplers in it or i buy a new aleno wiring and lots of wire bunched up at the back ? The advantage of using the baleno wiring i feel would also give me an accurate tacho reading as the baleno wiring has the wiring for the tacho as it has a tacho in the main instrument cluster? Your views on the same please.

Quote:
As I worked on the wiring alone, it took me 5 days and nights to complete it with no help from anybody. I ate, slept and worked in the same room for five days. Could have done that in half the time if I had had a helper. I checked every connection over and over till the time I was convinced it was theoretically correct. One wrong connection could have resulted in loss of parts worth 50K or more. The engine started without any hiccups on the first crank. The highlights of my wiring are
1. Easily removable because of use of couplers.
2. Retained the big fuse+relay box for added safety.
3. Wiring for radiator fan built-in, switched by signal from ECM.
4. Wiring for Air conditioner built-in, as in the Baleno(via ECM).
5. No big lumps of Baleno combi meter wiring inside dash board.
6. As the main wiring is Gypsy's own, so very very easy to fit.
7. Added wiring for a surprise addition, a T-Bhp first, EPS. ( After having driven WagonR for 3years on Delhi roads, I confess to be an EPS addict now. My Baleno and OHC, both have HPS but I feel more comfort in driving WagonR(steering wise). And the same goes for my Gypsy now.)
This is going to e something interesting to see.

Quote:
About OBD II Port. The port which you see in either Baleno or Gypsy, only LOOKS like OBD II and doesnt work like one. The port is there in the Gypsy wiring and proper connections as per Baleno wiring have been done, but not checked with the Suzuki scan tool.

Sorry, have not clicked any pics of the vehicle till now.
i don't think there should be any reason why it shouldn't work if all the wiring has been done properly and accurately.
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