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Old 13th April 2009, 14:09   #31
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Default is Bolero a good 4x4?

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Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Hi Guys,


Time and time again i've heard the Bolero is not a good off-roader, rather an on-road vehicle which can handle certain off-road situations. ....Now my point is, that the MM550 shares just about everything with a Bolero, as far as powertrain is concerned.
......., why do you think the Bolero, even though sharing the same things is still termed as basically a on-road vehilce that is capable of light offroad duties?
Regards,
Bikram
Bikram,
Bolero 4wd is a good vehicle and a good off roader. Comparing it with MM550 XD is like comparing a MM550 with a Cj3B or say Mahindra Classic. MM550's of the late have been getting rave reviews as people have started trying them off road. MM540 was also sometime back considered not so good off road, but the fact is difference is just marginal. Hence there arent enough people who have tried Bolero 4wd off road to know its real potential and drawbacks.

I feel in Mahindra stable the choices of vehicles must be as under-

1. 100% offroad ability with no creature comforts - M&M SWB variants
2. 90% Off road with fair on road dynamics with Doors- MM 540/550
3. 95% off roadability with fair on road performance with better NVH- MM550 XD
4. 70% off roadability with all creature comforts and better on road andling and cruising- Bolero 4wd

5. 70% off roadability with all creature comforts with faster on road cruising , better ride quality and comfort at price!- Scorpio 4wd

Bolero in low range has enough power to do what even more powerful vehicles like Scorpios can do. Expect it to lag behind in sand dune climbing as it has less power and momentum due to lesser BHP on tap. Except that i dont see bolero lag behind scorpio in any department. The biggest advantage with bolero is that even if you break something it is easy to fix and less expensive and parts are available in local market. But say if bumper of scorpio breaks it will set you aside by 10,000 straight! Further if you hit a rock hard, you might have to change the front suspension completely to avoid alignment and tyre wear issues. In bolero you would maximum have to replace a bent leaf spring or U bolts! Xd 3p or Di turbo is less expensive to fix than a CDRI engine incase it inhales water!

I would say if you want to try some decent offroading at a reasonable price then go for bolero.This is something like land rover defender equivalent. Dont expect it to cruise better or faster than your MM550 XD or even a well tuned MM540 though. Buy scorpio if you are rich enough to replace damaged parts at a dealership.

P.S-Scorpio is better 4wd wandrer for reserve forest trails, remote hinterland discovery, laddakh-leh expeditions etc.but Bolero is for people on budget and for those who want to take on things as they come and dont complain of its snails pace on highway
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Old 13th April 2009, 14:53   #32
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Hi Vinod,
The reason why i asked this is that i am about to sell my Bolero, but the companywalla ain't providing me with a nice DI engined 4x4 except in the bare-basic version.
The problem i've had with the bolero, especially in the desert, is due to its differetn track measurements. If the rear whell could follow the front one, it could go about in the sand a lot easier.
Now what i was thinking has got nothing to do with the stock drivetrain or suspension. If i have my way, it would have a coil-over-shock at every even, supported by a 3 link front and a five link rear, complete with a ladder(torque) bar. The motor a 2.6 gear driven from the scorpio, and the xfercase an atlas2. Differentials shortened 407's all around, or if i could get any C303 axles from the Gobindgarh scrapyards, all the better.
Regards,
Bikram
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Old 13th April 2009, 14:57   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
The problem i've had with the bolero, especially in the desert, is due to its differetn track measurements.
Spacers?

Regards
Spitfire
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:06   #34
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Lol, theres a relative of mine that regularily goes hunting in rajasthan, and he has stock rims in the front and alloys in the rear just for this reason. Why i would'nt want to go for those is that i would want to get rid of the dana44's itself as it would'nt be able to handle 35 inchers, especially considering the Bolero's weight.
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:13   #35
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Hi Bikram

You have answered most of the Question yourself. I had a Bolero GLX 4x2 and I have done little bit of off-roading. What I feel where MM scores over the Bolero are the following.

1. Wheel base (shorter the better)
2. Ground clearance
3. Weight

If you go over a big hump in a Bolero and it get stuck and all the 4 wheels are in the air then no 4x4 or bhp/torque will help.

If you stay in the city are planning for hardcore off-roading during some weekends only - stick to a MM or CJ series. If you stay in the country side where in rains most of the time and 4x4 is a part of daily life then buy (or mod) a Bolero 4x4 for creature comfort (compared to MM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Hi Guys,


Here are certain differences between the 2, and i'am sure there might be more, so if you figure something please point it out:-
1) They share basically the same chassis, but theres a 10" difference in the wheelbase.
2)The same engine, almost the same low gear ratios, the same axles front and rear, the same track, although there is about a 250kgs difference between the 2, and that makes the bolero a little underpowered.
3)There is not that much of a difference between the front and rear overhangs too.

Now i am not saying the Bolero is better than the mm550, coz the 550 clearly has all the advantages that a good offroader can have on paper.
Rather my point is that if the MM540/550 series is termed as one of the best offroaders in India, why do you think the Bolero, even though sharing the same things is still termed as basically a on-road vehilce that is capable of light offroad duties?
Regards,
Bikram
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:20   #36
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THe Bolero isnt that bad on the highway. The ride may be a bit for uncomfortable than a Scorpio but it does fine.

A/C is good
Engine noise with the Di Turbo does not boher you at all. Its well within acceptable levels.
Top speed of 120 Kmph on the dash and 108 kmph on the GPS is well within the top speeds expected to be achieved on Indian roads.

At what Rev speed does the turbo unit engage in the Bolero.
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:25   #37
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Weight and Wheelbase issues i agree with, but i dont think theres much of a difference in ground-clearance. Besides, the question is not the fact that the 540 is a stronger off-roader, which it is beyond doubt, but instead that sharing a lot in drivetrain and other facters and only a few differences would'nt amount to the Bolero being nothing but a lousy off-roader. What i want to know is what other things, other than the 3 points you've stated go against it, so as to these areas can be improved. Leave the suspension factors aside, since i'll be changing them to coil over Links anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
At what Rev speed does the turbo unit engage in the Bolero.
The Bolero Di -turbo engine is a very lightly turbocharged motor, so there is not a lot of "kick" in it, but anyways, its designed to flow with full efficiency at an extremely low rpm, right off idle, which explains max torque produced at a fairly low 14-1800rpm.

Last edited by Brutus : 13th April 2009 at 15:31. Reason: error
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:41   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Hi Vinod,
The reason why i asked this is that i am about to sell my Bolero, but the companywalla ain't providing me with a nice DI engined 4x4 except in the bare-basic version.
The problem i've had with the bolero, especially in the desert, is due to its differetn track measurements. If the rear whell could follow the front one, it could go about in the sand a lot easier.
Now what i was thinking has got nothing to do with the stock drivetrain or suspension. If i have my way, it would have a coil-over-shock at every even, supported by a 3 link front and a five link rear, complete with a ladder(torque) bar. The motor a 2.6 gear driven from the scorpio, and the xfercase an atlas2. Differentials shortened 407's all around, or if i could get any C303 axles from the Gobindgarh scrapyards, all the better.
Regards,
Bikram
How did C303 end up in India? Are there any in running condition?
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Old 13th April 2009, 15:47   #39
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Negatives

A terrible front seat. Very very uncomfortable on long hauls.

A/C system incomplete. No temp control knob for cold / hot, no air flow direction control or fresh / recirculate selection. No vents to blow cold air on the windscreen, hence constant fogging.

Position of handbrake not good.

Very difficult to adjust the headlights.

Poor legroom in 2nd row of seats.

Tailgate handle poor. Keeps failing.Malfunctioning.

Had a problem with passenger side power window, it was replaced under warranty.

The remote control ( keyless entry ) fell to pieces, It was repaired by the agency.

QUality of rubber seals in the trim poor. THis gold seal brand is what came in the Fiats ( Premier Padmini ).

OE tyres - Ceat are no good.Very soft, frequent instance of punctures. Should have been Bridgestone Dueler H/T . I have driven Dueler A/T 693 in my Prado, 2 sets for 55,000 Km each and they performed great on highways and off road. On highway i used to hit speeds of 160 to 180 kmph and drive in the desert deflated to 12 psi, but these tyres did brilliantly well.

Angle of approach and departure very poor.

The clutch fluid nozzle hanging down is too low. Hit it and broke it once off road. Vehicle was stranded, lucky the local people helped. Pushed and started the vehice and got it driven to the nearest town in 3rd gear.

Body parts fit not very good. The front doors rattle.

The seat springs keep squealing.

There is glass rattle on the driver window and passenger window.

Side mirrors of poor quality. Keep altering position with vibrations / bumps on the road.
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Old 13th April 2009, 16:15   #40
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Default Bolero 4WD

Hi Guys,

In Jan 2007, had the chance to take a Bolero Camper DI turbo off-road.

Was amazed with the performance of the 4WD Camper, it was running 265/75/15 Tyres and had the KMT90 and 4.88:1 diff-ratio.

In fact it was the only vehicle to do the toughest sand climb, where my MM540XD or Pat's CJ3B could not make it.

A 4WD Bolero is a good platform to modify or upgrade (using existing M&M Stuff)

Regards,

Arka

Sand Climbs.


Water Crossing.
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Old 13th April 2009, 16:16   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa_Kilo View Post
How did C303 end up in India? Are there any in running condition?
Gobindgard is probably the worlds biggest kabbadri bozzar, even the steel from Illfated WTC towers ended up here. Anyways, there is someone who gets loads of axles from abroad, including military axles, and also engines,v6,v8 and whatever. I've told them to keep a lookout if they find anything to the discription that i gave them. If they do, well and good, or we look for alternatives.

Desertfox, i've kept the bolero long enough to get used to it, and anyways anythings better than the tractor i drive in my village, lol. The tire life is good for a mahindra, i got about 50grands of whatever sets i used. Approach and departure angles is something i have to do something about, but then high lift and big tires do solve a few things, but invent a few new ones.
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Old 17th April 2009, 23:11   #42
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Its true, I had purchased the Bolero thinking it will perform and deliver a comfort level more like a Landrover Country Defender or Old model Cherookee and its nearly there. It is not and cannot be compared to a Landcruiser and one shouldnt think so.

I am going in for a 4x4 Scorpio now.
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Old 17th April 2009, 23:44   #43
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I am going in for a 4x4 Scorpio now.
If you wait a few months you can get the 4x4 Scorpio with the 2.2 Mhawk engine. Currently it is available only with the 2.6 CRDe.
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Old 12th March 2010, 11:27   #44
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Mmm went through the whole thread, and to be honest there is more information about the Scorpio 4x4 on this Bolero thread than on the Bolero 4x4. Can someone who actually owns a Bolero 4x4 provide a detailed performance report please.

The posts on this thread seem to argue in favor of the Scorpio 4x4 and that is totally understandable as it is a superior product. But as u all know it comes at a hefty price. Now there are people like me who cant and wont spend that kind of money on a 4x4 we intend to use roughly (travelling across remote parts of India rather than on hardcore 4x4 tracks). So a comparison between the DI engine and the 4x4 boleros XDP3 engine would be of great help. I have been hearing a lot of positives about the DI engine, its low end torque, high mileage and low running cost. So how comparable or different is the XDP3 engine to the DI engine on these lines? Any information would be of great help. Thank you all :-)
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Old 12th March 2010, 19:41   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Mmm went through the whole thread, and to be honest there is more information about the Scorpio 4x4 on this Bolero thread than on the Bolero 4x4. Can someone who actually owns a Bolero 4x4 provide a detailed performance report please.

The posts on this thread seem to argue in favor of the Scorpio 4x4 and that is totally understandable as it is a superior product. But as u all know it comes at a hefty price. Now there are people like me who cant and wont spend that kind of money on a 4x4 we intend to use roughly (travelling across remote parts of India rather than on hardcore 4x4 tracks). So a comparison between the DI engine and the 4x4 boleros XDP3 engine would be of great help. I have been hearing a lot of positives about the DI engine, its low end torque, high mileage and low running cost. So how comparable or different is the XDP3 engine to the DI engine on these lines? Any information would be of great help. Thank you all :-)
Further to this question, why there is a difference in wheelbase of SLX (XD3PU) & DI Boleros?

Wheelbase:

SLX 4WD: 2680mm (around 7.25 lakhs on road)

DI 4WD: 2794mm (around 6.5 lakhs on road)

Will the SLX score better in Offroad coz of wheelbase?
Scorpio also has 2680mm wheelbase


Are the prices right?
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