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Old 3rd May 2009, 01:34   #1
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Default Safari Engine in MM550/540

MODS - first thing first if this topic is a dupe please delete it.

Gurus, the title of the topic is pretty self explanatory. Not that I am planning to do it but I wanted to know if this can be achieved. With the 2.2 vtt being so popular! Can it be done that we can fit that engine into a mm5X0 series body and have the 4X4 working also.

If this can be done then is it suggested? What is the flip side? like may be the engine is too heavy! If any what are the upsides?
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Old 3rd May 2009, 10:15   #2
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1) Why it has to be the heavy engine from 2.2?
Then
2) Will it fit in?
3) If it does fit it, wont the weight be an issue?
4) no to mention the mods needed to accommodate it
5) gear box etc?
6) talk to khan; make a gypsy like he has. It has easily out do a Safari when it comes to 4x4.
7) And peace of mind.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:26   #3
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It can definitely be done but I wouldn't recommend it for a number of reasons.

1. These engines have two much electronics and hence if you plan to really use your 540 for a lot of water fording off-road, it may mess up the ECU.

2. The chasis will not be able to handle the power generated by this engine and the vehicle will definitely be dangerous to handle with an 140 bhp engine and a chasis made for 68 bhp. Remember that the Bolero has a newer/stronger chasis and even that had to be strenghtened by mahinda when they put in the 100 bhp CRDe engine in the Bolero VLX.

3. Since the engine was launched only recently, you will find it hard to obtain a good used engine.

4. If this engine has some issues, you will need to take it to TASS to diagnose it,

If I may suggest you can consider the Tata 2.0 TCIC engine. These engines have no ECU but only electric fuel pump. These engines have been proven on countless Sumos and these engines are available in market. They make only 90 bhp, but remember the 540 is much lighter than the Sumo/Safari so the performance will be pretty good. this is something that I have in mind..
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Old 4th May 2009, 07:26   #4
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@jkdas
The idea is to make a jeep (if and when I get to it) not a Gypsy!
Considering the curb weight of safari I have no doubt that the engine is heavy for a MM540 body! The 2.2 is superb engine but might not be the best in this case hence the thread to check what the Gurus have to say.

@4X4
As far as the engine trouble is concerned and going to TASS to get it fixed, is the same not so true for the other engines Nissans, Isuzus? Can the be diagnosed anywhere easily?
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Old 4th May 2009, 08:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailee_Jatt_Boy View Post
@4X4
As far as the engine trouble is concerned and going to TASS to get it fixed, is the same not so true for the other engines Nissans, Isuzus? Can the be diagnosed anywhere easily?
Not necessarily. The Nissan and Isuzu engines that many people plonk in their jeeps are older Turbo DI or Turbo IDI engines. These don't have any fancy electronics and any good diesel mechanic can diagnose them. The problem with the newer engines with electronics is that the whole engine is a harmony of various sensors and you need a computer to diagnose failure of the sensors/parts.
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Old 5th May 2009, 02:21   #6
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Aha! thanks 4X4 I understand what is going on here?

And judging from the response from others I am inclining towards the fact that Safari engine and MM540s dont go together well.
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Old 5th May 2009, 13:07   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailee_Jatt_Boy View Post
Aha! thanks 4X4 I understand what is going on here?

And judging from the response from others I am inclining towards the fact that Safari engine and MM540s dont go together well.
Not to mention that the ECU of the Safari engine is programmed to work with Safari parameters, e.g. Safari gearing, pedal position, speedometer etc. Swapping engines is hard. Swapping modern engines with their ECUs programmed for the vehicle from which they came makes it an extremely daunting task.

The idea of a MM540 and a Tata diesel, sans ECU, has merit. You could also add a divorced transfer case from Force to ease the drive train matchups. Proceeding thus you could use a Tata clutch and tranny.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 5th May 2009 at 13:10.
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Old 5th May 2009, 23:21   #8
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This type of conversion is possible with a lot of modification to the chassis and than to getting the 4X4 to work will be an issue. Plus the 540/550 was scary to drive with the 80 BHP ISUZU petrol engine, which M&M had launched so getting a 140 BHP engine will be REALLY SCARY to drive.You will have to work on all the brakes [not just front] suspension to handle the horse power the chassis will need strengthening.
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Old 6th May 2009, 01:31   #9
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Instead of the TATA Safari's 2.2L why dont you consider the Mahindra Scorpio mHawk's 2.2L engine or the Bolero's CRDe Unit?
It should be a much easier and a more viable transplant. Like what GTO did with his CJ340 Classic.(DI unit from the Bolero)

Last edited by abhik : 6th May 2009 at 01:33.
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Old 6th May 2009, 03:42   #10
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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Instead of the TATA Safari's 2.2L why dont you consider the Mahindra Scorpio mHawk's 2.2L engine or the Bolero's CRDe Unit?
It should be a much easier and a more viable transplant. Like what GTO did with his CJ340 Classic.(DI unit from the Bolero)
You will have the same complications with the mHwawk. Just becasuse it is made by Mahindra doesn't mean that it will be a simple install.

With the Bolero CRDe unit it may be easier as the Bolero CRDe unit is based on the XD3P block and it is possible that it may have the same engine mount points as the XD3P.

GTO installed the XD3P Engine in his Classic and not the DI engine. Upgrading to the XD3P engine is the easiest upgrade.
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Old 6th May 2009, 05:35   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You will have the same complications with the mHwawk. Just becasuse it is made by Mahindra doesn't mean that it will be a simple install.

With the Bolero CRDe unit it may be easier as the Bolero CRDe unit is based on the XD3P block and it is possible that it may have the same engine mount points as the XD3P.

GTO installed the XD3P Engine in his Classic and not the DI engine. Upgrading to the XD3P engine is the easiest upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You will have the same complications with the mHwawk. Just becasuse it is made by Mahindra doesn't mean that it will be a simple install.

With the Bolero CRDe unit it may be easier as the Bolero CRDe unit is based on the XD3P block and it is possible that it may have the same engine mount points as the XD3P.

GTO installed the XD3P Engine in his Classic and not the DI engine. Upgrading to the XD3P engine is the easiest upgrade.
True that the mHAWK would have complications but since he wanted a powerful upgrade so i suggested the same. The 2.2L units of both TATA and Mahindra were sourced from AVL from Austria. But Mahindra opted for a lower 120BHP tune for a more reliable plus fuel efficient engine. So it might just be a better option against the 2.2L unit from TATA. Plus 120BHP and 290NM of torque can be more managable on the MM550/540 chasis.
The Bolero's CRDe would infact be the best upgrade for its power and most importantly, it being based on the XD3P.
Sorry, my bad, i thought GTO had installed the DI unit.
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Old 6th May 2009, 15:17   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Y
With the Bolero CRDe unit it may be easier as the Bolero CRDe unit is based on the XD3P block and it is possible that it may have the same engine mount points as the XD3P.
The Bolero Crde engine is based on the old scorpio engine.
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Old 6th May 2009, 16:11   #13
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Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
The Bolero Crde engine is based on the old scorpio engine.
The cc/bore/stroke is same as the XD3P hence I thought it was based on the XD3P. The Scorpio engine had a larger bore.
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Old 6th May 2009, 16:45   #14
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Neither Safari 2.2L 140 Bhp engine nor Scorpio 2.2L 120 Bhp engiine would be suitable, the electronics etc that need to be worked on are too complicated.

The Safari TCIC 90 Bhp engine is a good posibility but fitment in the engine bay will most likely be an issue and require significant modication.

Even plonking a 2.2 ltr Safari engine in an older safari itself, require a lot of electronics to be take care of so placing it in an older Mahindra will be quite hard and not worth the effort.

What I would suggest is to do the opp, since the objective is to get a nice little macho open top Jeep look alike, Buy a second hand 2 Ltr. 90 Bhp TCIC safari for just about 1.5-2L or a 2.2Ltr VTT LX early model for about 5.5L and then just chop off the top (roof) remove the back seat area Top half. Chop off the rear door too in half (remove the glass potion - the wheel is mounted on the base portion) and reduce the overall hight of the Safari to the minimum - this is adjustable incase of safari.

That would get you closer to the Jeep dream and the reduced Wt. safari with all the chopped off bits would be quite responsive even in 90 Bhp version. You could also get a Soft rool made for the rear. and could also do away with the side view mirrors and place some large chrome one on the sides. (Though the current ones are good by themselves.)

You could also weld on hold bars/ anti roll bars in the rear portion.

That would make for a nice vehicle, the only thing missing may be the Jeep Grill. But they you may find a way out for that as well.
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Old 6th May 2009, 17:01   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
...

What I would suggest is to ...
Buy a second hand 2 Ltr. 9........ then just chop off the top (roof) ..... remove the back seat area Top half..... Chop off the rear door too in half (remove the glass potion - the wheel is mounted on the base portion) and reduce the overall hight of the Safari to the minimum - this is adjustable incase of safari.

That would get you closer to the Jeep dream ...

...

.... Man, I am trying to visualize a Safari with above mods. Am not able to.

Help please.

PS: @ACM. I am sure you posted all this in a lighter mood.
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