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Old 12th June 2013, 06:05   #46
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Can the CL340 take heavier motor without issues, I mean with the kind of chasis it has. I am sure XD3P + common-rail + turbo will be heavier than 190 Kgs and would rip things apart???!!
I have bitter experience of runing heavier ones on my 3B.
- Venson
Correct Venkat, The CJ/CL chassis cannot handle the weight. In fact weight and suspension will be the major drawbacks.

But instead of the XD3P common rail engine, a few Nissan, Toyota or the national FIAT 1.3 MJD might be a good idea
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Old 13th June 2013, 15:59   #47
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

Does adding Turbo to a naturally aspirated engine make it a highway friendly engine?
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Old 14th June 2013, 18:32   #48
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Does adding Turbo to a naturally aspirated engine make it a highway friendly engine?
Adding a TC to an existing engine need not make it necessarily a high way friendly vehicle.

A TC is usually added for more power gains from the same engine capacity.

However, off late, the Indian auto industry has witnessed a splurge of cars with TC that mostly help meet the emission norms and IMPROVE driveability.

A highway friendly vehicle is one in which the engine is relaxed at the cruising speed the driver decides to maintain.
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Old 14th June 2013, 20:07   #49
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Adding a TC to an existing engine need not make it necessarily a high way friendly vehicle.
==========
A highway friendly vehicle is one in which the engine is relaxed at the cruising speed the driver decides to maintain.
Which now brings me to the next question , Can i convert a MDI3200 into a MDI3200 TC by just plunking in an after market TC kit ?
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:20   #50
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Which now brings me to the next question , Can i convert a MDI3200 into a MDI3200 TC by just plunking in an after market TC kit ?
Yes and No. it depends on your installer and how well he knows the job.
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Old 15th June 2013, 18:11   #51
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

Getting the fuel/air ratio right seems to be one big hurdle. You might also want to think "intercooler" to keep the input air temp down for optimal combustion and to diminish the possibility of melting the turbo. Then, there is also the question of what size turbo.

It's all a complex venture.
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Old 17th June 2013, 14:28   #52
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

Sounds pretty complex and expensive !!
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Old 12th June 2014, 02:26   #53
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

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Old 7th July 2015, 07:45   #54
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Getting the fuel/air ratio right seems to be one big hurdle. You might also want to think "intercooler" to keep the input air temp down for optimal combustion and to diminish the possibility of melting the turbo. Then, there is also the question of what size turbo.

It's all a complex venture.

Hello Dirty Dan,
A bit late to the party, but it seems to me that no one mentions mechanical/ thermal stressing of the engine scantlings - jackets, entablature or even big end bearings.
In the late sixties/early seventies (yes, I'm 63, so I know what I'm talking about!), U.K. firms like Broadspeed Bullit were offering after market strap-on turbo kits for Vauxhall Firenzas & Ford Escorts for week-end boy racers. They would last for a while and then slowly start disintegrating.

Taking a standard well-designed NA engine (meaning one with decent stress analysis at drawing board stage) and converting it to T/C'ing would mean allowing allowing for much higher peak pressures=much higher crank down force=much higher torque=substantially higher stress thresh-holds.
Conversely, the compression ratio would need to be softened sufficiently to keep peak pressures within thresh-hold limits.

For those looking for compactness, the M&M Quanto uses twin-scroll t/ching which packs in decent punch in a smaller package. But one is advised that twin-scroll t/ching is treated warily even by veterans due to the problems associated with the nature of the beast - drivability, tractability, surge-line fine-tuning etc. M&M needs to be complimented for its in-house R&D for succeeding where angels fear to tread - even the conversion from 4 to 3-pot made for great NVH and harshness levels, without resorting to exotica like balancer shafts.

Aside from things like intercooling/oil cooling, the point I am trying to make is : please give due diligence to durability & reliability. I may be out of touch with after-market offerings, but I dont know of any local outfits doing the kind of patient-resuscitation needed to get a harmless NA candidate and turning it into a fire-breathing T/C'ed Casanova.
Regards,
Shashanka















p=
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Old 7th July 2015, 14:43   #55
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Hello Dirty Dan,

... the point I am trying to make is : please give due diligence to durability & reliability. I may be out of touch with after-market offerings, but I dont know of any local outfits doing the kind of patient-resuscitation needed to get a harmless NA candidate and turning it into a fire-breathing T/C'ed Casanova.
Regards,
Shashank

p=

Your points are well taken by amateur me, for sure. You may want to look at post #35 by Brutus above. He floats thru here from time to time. Makes his own differentials among other things.
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Old 8th July 2015, 17:09   #56
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Your points are well taken by amateur me, for sure. You may want to look at post #35 by Brutus above. He floats thru here from time to time. Makes his own differentials among other things.
Yes, I've just made nodding acqaintance with Brutus by placing before him a dilemma I'm facing currently (post #143 - Articulating on articulation). I certainly hope he gives me some tips. Like you said, Brutus is a bloke who walks the talk. He is no hot air merchant, which, in the present context, is a huge compliment.
Regarding differentials I have a confession to make - as a lad of fourteen addicted to Meccano modelling, I had made my first working differential back then. It was only possible because, being the blue-eyed nephew of an army of aunts & uncles, I had been indulged on an earlier b'day with Meccano's Gear Set #B and Meccano's own #5 set as well as the clockwork motor.
I would put this early familiarity/aptitude for mechanical hardware as the reason for later taking up an engineering career!
Shashanka
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Old 21st July 2015, 20:31   #57
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Which now brings me to the next question , Can i convert a MDI3200 into a MDI3200 TC by just plunking in an after market TC kit ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Getting the fuel/air ratio right seems to be one big hurdle. You might also want to think "intercooler" to keep the input air temp down for optimal combustion and to diminish the possibility of melting the turbo. Then, there is also the question of what size turbo. It's all a complex venture.
I knew a guy who put a bolt-on turbo kit on an old VW Golf diesel which seemed to work alright... drove it across the U.S.

Had wondered the same re: the MDI at points, but quite sure I will NOT be doing it on our Marshal DI (for reasons stated elsewhere re: cylinder pressures, etc), unless I could verify the precise differences (if any) that M&M utilized in the design of the engine's lower end. Turbo versions (vs. NA designs of any given engine) generally use thicker block webbings, stronger cranks / pistons / rods, etc; they also often utilize oil-cooling for pistons via a special oil-spray from below. There are a few engines out there that were so ridiculously overdesigned to begin with that they can handle the additional stress; but in the modern age, such designs are pretty rare on account of more advanced engineering design methods (simulation software, etc) and a manufacturer's serious aversion to spending money unneccessarily.

Re: air/fuel ratio, the MDI turbo's IP (injection pump) seems to have (if I'm correctly understanding by visual inspection) mixture compensation via a solenoid on top, which is activated via signal from a pressure-sensitive diaphragm switch in the intake tract. Without that system, you're going to run lean under boost, and that's going to lead to big trouble.

Re: intercoolers, these actually are mounted between turbo and intake, so don't have any effect on cooling the turbo. They do cool intake air, to make it denser/cooler allowing for more boost pressure. In thermodynamic terms, PV=nRT; to make it simple, all other things being equal, you increase pressure, you increase temperature. So pressurized air coming out of your turbo (which is already being spun up by hot exhaust gases) is hotter than it was coming in. And more air/fuel being forced into the combustion chamber also raises compression pressure, therefore combustion chamber temps. As I understand it, an intercooler essentially helps compensate for all that.

Re: the conversion, if it's for a limited-use car not often put under heavy load, that you don't want to invest much in, can afford to have fail, and you can pick up a second-hand turbo, IP, and related plumbing cheap (Rs15,000 maybe?) and bolt it on, and you know someone who knows something about tuning/setup of turbo cars, it might be worth a try...

For our purposes, we need something absolutely reliable (I might occasionally have to run uphill in remote places for two hours at a time), and I don't have the time / workspace for engineering projects. So am considering whether or not to spend Rs40,000+ for a second-hand MDI3200TC.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 21st July 2015 at 20:37.
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Old 21st July 2015, 21:09   #58
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

An intercooler effects the temp of combustion. Hence also the exhaust gasses and turbo spinner. But, yeah, from this thread and others I have given up on the idea of tinkering with turbos in India. Reliability is the issue as you say. Don't want to come down out of the big hills via yak recovery team.

May have to spring for just a better vehicle and spend the $$$$.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 21:38   #59
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Re: air/fuel ratio, the MDI turbo's IP (injection pump) seems to have (if I'm correctly understanding by visual inspection) mixture compensation via a solenoid on top, which is activated via signal from a pressure-sensitive diaphragm switch in the intake tract. Without that system, you're going to run lean under boost, and that's going to lead to big trouble.
Why? (And what is 'ideal' A/F ratio in a Diesel?)

Regards
Sutripta

PS. Eric, asking you because I know you'll think about it!
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Old 24th July 2015, 23:32   #60
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Default Re: Turbos on Indian off-road vehicles

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An intercooler effects the temp of combustion. Hence also the exhaust gasses and turbo spinner.
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Why? (And what is 'ideal' A/F ratio in a Diesel?)
PS. Eric, asking you because I know you'll think about it!
Oops. What I think about it is that I'm in well over my head already. I had a doubt about my "lean" comment (which would be valid for petrol engines), and was going to edit it out - somehow didn't get it done.

I do know that the Bosch VE pumps used on some European diesel cars (Peugeots as one example) had some kind of boost-compensating mixture-richening feature activated by a diaphragm atop the IP. Did a little reading on power-tuning these, and probably assumed too much.

Marshal is of course N/A and the first diesel I've owned, and I've only delved into turbo-diesel research a couple times. Lots of people modifying them now in the U.S., but at my current stage of ignorance, there are some things that really seem (to me) to work almost backwards from what a petrol engine does... the effects of things like timing advance / mixture on EGT's, etc, just don't really seem to translate (ah, things were so much simpler with gasoline).

I think I'll just be quiet now .
My apologies...

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 24th July 2015 at 23:40.
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