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Old 14th May 2009, 10:58   #1
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Default MM550 upgrade to 5 speed worthwhile ?

I was looking at doing some more work to our MM550. One of the things some have mentioned is replacing the 4 speed box with a 5 speed.

The overall cost will be between RS20,000 and RS25,000 depending on how much it will cost to get the box from Mayapuri. They are easily available.

So is this worth doing ? too little bang for buck ?

Thanks.
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Old 14th May 2009, 15:02   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
They are easily available.
Bigman,

Are you talking about the BA-10 GB which was mated with XD3P?
I heard, the gear box is too complex and can cost you a bomb if you open that thing. I have this Gear Box in my 550. Shifting is very smooth though. Now if you are talking about new gear box (NGT) which comes for MDI3200, then I would say it’s a steal for that money. BUT, you may need to custom build an adapter plate for mating with XD3P (Nothing wrong if done properly). And, the Transfer case is at left side for NGT Gearbox that means, the position of back differential is opposed to your current position (Right Offset?). In both cases 20k for a good BA-10/NGT is a good deal. Down here in south these gearboxes are very hard to come by. As a conclusion, if you are planning for BA-10 you can mate it without many challenges.

Hope This Helps

--Sree--
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Old 14th May 2009, 15:14   #3
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The NGT and the BA10 have exactly the same mount holes for the bell housing.
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Old 14th May 2009, 15:19   #4
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The boxes that my dad was shown in Mayapuri were BA10.
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Old 14th May 2009, 15:28   #5
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Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
The NGT and the BA10 have exactly the same mount holes for the bell housing.
That is news for me!!! Then we just need to deal with the transfer case position and Differential offset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
The boxes that my dad was shown in Mayapuri were BA10.
Go ahead and do it. I would say its worth. Still my jeep revs very high after 90 km/h. I will fix a 31/32 inch tyre and the situation will get better.

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 14th May 2009, 15:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
BUT, you may need to custom build an adapter plate for mating with XD3P
--Sree--
It is a little difficult to source the bell housing for the MDI engine though!
It is a bit of a pain overall, with the differential housing to be changed, the front and rear prop shafts to be lengthened/shortened and also the speedometer has to be changed etc.
The BA10 cannot handle too much torque.

Last edited by jyobeb : 14th May 2009 at 15:44.
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Old 14th May 2009, 16:23   #7
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bigman,
This purely depends upon what you want from your jeep. Go for BA 10 only if-

1. You have sufficient money to rebuild it if the need be even after paying high initial cost
2. Your jeep is your primary vehicle and use it for every day use especially on highways
3. Dont do much of offroading. BA10 are known to be fragile but good for most situations and our engines power ratings
4. Go for manual shift only as electric ones cost you a bomb for a faulty ECU

I would say if your budget permits then go for it. Else Kia KMT 90 is good enough for pure offroading though you need ear plugs as a standard accessory:-))
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Old 14th May 2009, 20:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
The BA10 cannot handle too much torque.
Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean BA-10 will not be able to handle the torque of XD3P or MDI 3200? The reason i asked you is, one of my friends has a DI converted XD3P with TCIC. Which generates lods of Torque (More than MDI3200). These gear boxes are much more capable than we think of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
bigman,
This purely depends upon what you want from your jeep. Go for BA 10 only if-

1. You have sufficient money to rebuild it if the need be even after paying high initial cost
2. Your jeep is your primary vehicle and use it for every day use especially on highways
3. Dont do much of offroading. BA10 are known to be fragile but good for most situations and our engines power ratings
4. Go for manual shift only as electric ones cost you a bomb for a faulty ECU

I would say if your budget permits then go for it. Else Kia KMT 90 is good enough for pure offroading though you need ear plugs as a standard accessory:-))
+1 to that. BA-10 casing is of aluminium. Having said that, i dont think its fragile, unless your gearbox get a direct hit for which chances are very low. I have checked this personolly. There is not even a remote chance of getting a direct hit to gearbox. You have a very stong skid plate for transfercase and you need to break you propeller shaft for exposing your gearbox. As vinod righly told, its a bliss when it comes to highway driving. And my Jeep is a daily friver as well.

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 14th May 2009, 21:53   #9
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Thanks for all the replies.

What 5speed box is fitted in the new army MM550s ?

Quote:
1. You have sufficient money to rebuild it if the need be even after paying high initial cost
Yes I think so just made enough to cover the cost via gambling over the last few days.

Quote:
2. Your jeep is your primary vehicle and use it for every day use especially on highways
Its not the primary vehicle so I guess not much need for it plus not really too bothered about average as the MM550 is really used enough.


Quote:
3. Dont do much of offroading. BA10 are known to be fragile but good for most situations and our engines power ratings
I think I might stick to the current 4sp box then. I guess I can put the money towards getting a SWB Jeep.
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Old 15th May 2009, 00:49   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean BA-10 will not be able to handle the torque of XD3P or MDI 3200?
--Sree--
Google "problems with BA10", and you will see what I mean. Mahindra necessarily had to upgrade the BA10 as it would not handle the torque of the MDI engine and the Scorpio engine and hence the "new and improved NGT!!!"

Last edited by jyobeb : 15th May 2009 at 00:50.
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Old 15th May 2009, 02:06   #11
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Sree:

I agree that the aluminum casing may not be much of a concern but the torque rating of the gearbox has to do more with the internals than the casing. The first generation Scorpio initially came with the BA10 gearbox and Mahindra developed the NGT to improve the torque handling characteristics. There are two versions of the NGT. The NGT520 with the mechanical transfer case for the the Major/Invader etc.. The NGT530 with the electrical borg warner t-case for the Scorpio/Bolero 4WD, etc.. The difference between these are purely the torque rating.
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Old 15th May 2009, 13:21   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
Google "problems with BA10", and you will see what I mean. Mahindra necessarily had to upgrade the BA10 as it would not handle the torque of the MDI engine and the Scorpio engine and hence the "new and improved NGT!!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Sree:

I agree that the aluminum casing may not be much of a concern but the torque rating of the gearbox has to do more with the internals than the casing. The first generation Scorpio initially came with the BA10 gearbox and Mahindra developed the NGT to improve the torque handling characteristics. There are two versions of the NGT. The NGT520 with the mechanical transfer case for the the Major/Invader etc.. The NGT530 with the electrical borg warner t-case for the Scorpio/Bolero 4WD, etc.. The difference between these are purely the torque rating.
I agree this point. I am little relaxed now as i dont have an MDI engine. Yes i know the scorpio story. Tini, you did some exersise for mating this with XD3P right?

Thanks
Sreeraj
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Old 5th June 2012, 00:18   #13
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Default Re: MM550 upgrade to 5 speed worthwhile ?

One online transmission resource I found stated that it was actually the dimensional changes (due to higher torque loads) in the weak BA-10 cases that caused the internal mechanical issues, as well. So it might not be a long-term "cure" to just rebuild a bad one before installing it in your Jeep. If the case is out of shape, it'll cause continual problems in the future, as well. Jeep, under Chrysler Corp. in the U.S., used the BA-10 with disastrous results in some of their late 1980's products. They switched to something else after a mere 1-1/2 years of production. As this resource put it, "A passenger car transmission in a truck." Can't see how it's worth Rs 20,000 with the possible unreliability in view.
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Old 12th June 2012, 18:04   #14
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Default Re: MM550 upgrade to 5 speed worthwhile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
One online transmission resource I found stated that it was actually the dimensional changes (due to higher torque loads) in the weak BA-10 cases that caused the internal mechanical issues, as well. So it might not be a long-term "cure" to just rebuild a bad one before installing it in your Jeep. If the case is out of shape, it'll cause continual problems in the future, as well. Jeep, under Chrysler Corp. in the U.S., used the BA-10 with disastrous results in some of their late 1980's products. They switched to something else after a mere 1-1/2 years of production. As this resource put it, "A passenger car transmission in a truck." Can't see how it's worth Rs 20,000 with the possible unreliability in view.
They swapped it with the AX15 gearbox - have a look at Novak Jeep Conversions - Home for details
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