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Old 7th September 2009, 14:20   #106
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I found this interesting write up by this guy who has done a SOA. Step by step instructions too. He has used a lot of professional parts. But the priciple approach seems to be reliable Here is a link worth checking out. SOA Conversion Instructions
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Old 7th September 2009, 14:40   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
If Fazal Ali allows me or my friend to give a visit to his Jeep(in ooty) to understand the setup, I will go ahead do it in my Jeep in the near future itself.
Siva, How will this improve your ground clearance? May improve ride quality (dont know how) but not ground clearance. When you check out this jeep do check for excessive rolling. Normally a firm setup is good for offroading rather than a soft set up which can lead to roll and excessive hopping
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Old 7th September 2009, 16:47   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post

....... the lower helper shacle attached to the upper is not rigid, this is where the difference is. The shock from the upper set is passed on to the lower helper due to it being fastened as one set. It is the lower set shackle that elongates during compression and at the same time maintaining the torsion required to reduce body roll....
Faz, this is an interesting design you have come upon. I would like to know more about this. Please, please, post more pictures from all angles and get the shackles front and rear on both axles. Any idea of what effect this dual pack has on the articulation?
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Old 8th September 2009, 09:09   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Siva, How will this improve your ground clearance? May improve ride quality (dont know how) but not ground clearance. When you check out this jeep do check for excessive rolling. Normally a firm setup is good for offroading rather than a soft set up which can lead to roll and excessive hopping

Vinod, If you look at the spring plate configuration for CJ3B variants you will see

10 in the rear and 9 in the front
9 in the rear and 8 in the front
8 in the rear and 7 in the front

Looking at one of the leaf spring configuration of Fazal Ali you will understand he has got total of 15 nos. in a bunch. I'm sure that increase about 1-2 inches of height and also provides larger space for the taller tyres.

Coming to the rolling possibilities, yes not to be ruled out but that could be compensated by having broader tyre or differential upgrade. If 48" is what the track width of Classic, I have already got plans to upgrade my differential to MM550 LSD, hence I need to go for the MM550 hosing which is 51" wide. So effectively 3" increase in the width and 3-4 inches in the height.

I'm not good at maths but I'm planned to try it out. If some one help me do a calculation and tell me if this idea is bad I may backout also.
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Old 8th September 2009, 14:48   #110
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
... you will understand he has got total of 15 nos. in a bunch. I'm sure that increase about 1-2 inches of height and also provides larger space for the taller tyres....
This will not be the case for overslung axles (unless the springs are re-arched).

Addition of leaves will add to the ground clearance of the vehicle only in case it is underslung (SPoA) axles.
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Old 9th September 2009, 20:08   #111
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Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
This will not be the case for overslung axles (unless the springs are re-arched).
Addition of leaves will add to the ground clearance of the vehicle only in case it is underslung (SPoA) axles.
Blue Thunder,
Even in case of over slung axles one added leaf helps. It is also true that re-arched or re- moped springs add to the lift, can you explain your theory of how one leaf which is 6-8mm thick, help in raising the GC on SPoA only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Faz, this is an interesting design you have come upon. I would like to know more about this. Please, please, post more pictures from all angles and get the shackles front and rear on both axles. Any idea of what effect this dual pack has on the articulation?
DirtyDan,
The design is not mine, it is an original design of a 80 year old guy from Hyderabad, the photographs of the front and rear set up are on the forum and I have no more photographs or I would gladly share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Siva, How will this improve your ground clearance? May improve ride quality (dont know how) but not ground clearance. When you check out this jeep do check for excessive rolling. Normally a firm setup is good for offroading rather than a soft set up which can lead to roll and excessive hopping
Vinod,
Hope all on your end is good.
The re-moped, tensioned springs and the added leaf have together raised the GC by more than 3".
In regards to the body roll, I drove a friends Kaiser which has a soft spring set up and my white 540 had a rock hard one. Too soft or too hard I feel add to the body roll. I have done a little off roading in this jeep and the body roll was minimum as I have mentioned in my previous replies.
The other jeep that beats it is, well.
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
I do know the location where you have parked in Ooty, my friend Jitendra(Jithu aka. Jithan) told me that he knows you(or your cousin) and your jeep and also the whereabouts. I will let you know when I plan my trip, as I have a long pending tasks in Ooty and that will make all my plans tucked in. Most probably 2 weeks from now.
Trammway,
A small world indeed.
I think your friend Jithan may know my cousin. Last time I was there in Ooty it was from 12 at night to 7 in the morning, after which we left for Nagarahole.
Since you know about the whereabouts of the jeep, after your assessment, please let the rest of our forum members know your opinion . I too am looking forward to it. Also help Beejay with the adress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
Interesting.
I would like to see this set up too. I would much appreciate if you are able to PM me the details as to where I need to see this in Ooty.
Beejay,
Get hold of Trammway and Jithan, all I know is there is a hospital opposite to my cousins bunglow in Ooty.
Regards,
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Old 10th September 2009, 02:36   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
DirtyDan,
The design is not mine, it is an original design of a 80 year old guy from Hyderabad, the photographs of the front and rear set up are on the forum and I have no more photographs or I would gladly share.
Yeah, yeah, I read your original post quite carefully. I know about the 80 year old fellow. Hopefully you will have visitors with cameras who will scope this thing out for us. At any rate it points the way to possibilities. I would like to see what Behram, Brutus and Arka have to say about this.

I am still wondering about how this set up effects ARTICULATION.
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Old 10th September 2009, 11:02   #113
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Default Helper Leaf or Rebound Leaf

Attachment 186426

Hi D_D,

This is a very intelligent setup, if you notice from Siva's diagram.

The additional leaf spring helps the suspension, by rebounding i.e pushes/pulls the spring pack down to take the next suspension cycle, hence the spring pack is fully arched and ready to take on the next road undulation.

That is the only reason why the suspension is soft.

Helper Leaves like trucks/Willys MB/ are for load carrying purpose and actually stiffen the suspension, not make it softer.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th September 2009, 13:23   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
Unfortunately, the pictures shown of the orange jeep have rigidly attached the upper leaf at both ends thereby limiting the suspension travel, and rendering the shackle of no real use other than an anchoring point for the lower portion of the leaf pack.
Technically what RedMM340 says is absolutely correct.

Which is not to say this setup has no value. Here is what is happening. The upper set is setup considerably softer and gives the car the softer ride. In the action of the upper set the lower set which is comparatively harder does not interfere in the upper set movement as it is not rigidly mounted on either end. When the suspension is compressed beyond a point where the upper set cannot provide much springing the lower set having elongated through its shackles at both end comes into play (works like a rigid mounting).

What this means is the car has a softer sprung ride for a couple of inches of suspension travel and a progressively harder spring setup beyond a point.

So Fazal's point of a softer ride makes sense when you consider the upper set to be much weaker than a standard factory spring set. It certainly is an interesting setup.

Fazal if the upper set is anchored at one end to a shackle instead of a rigid hookup you will get an even softer feel

Last edited by DKG : 10th September 2009 at 13:27.
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Old 10th September 2009, 15:10   #115
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Helper Leaves like trucks/Willys MB/ are for load carrying purpose and actually stiffen the suspension, not make it softer.
Hi Arka,

Is this a helper spring? The smaller of the 2. Does this stiffen/soften a truck like this one?

Cant something like this be done to increase a Jeep's height?

If yes/no please educate why.

Regds
Santosh
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Old 10th September 2009, 21:29   #116
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[quote=DKG;1475493] In the action of the upper set the lower set which is comparatively harder does not interfere in the upper set movement as it is not rigidly mounted on either end. When the suspension is compressed beyond a point where the upper set cannot provide much springing the lower set having elongated through its shackles at both end comes into play . What this means is the car has a softer sprung ride for a couple of inches of suspension travel and a progressively harder spring setup beyond a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

The additional leaf spring helps the suspension, by rebounding i.e pushes/pulls the spring pack down to take the next suspension cycle, hence the spring pack is fully arched and ready to take on the next road undulation.

That is the only reason why the suspension is soft.
Dear DKG, Arka and Trammway,

I am very impressed by you analysis!
Yes, it is the rebound mechanism.
As the lower set is (on one end) attached to the shackle and the other to the center of the upper set, this center is the point where I feel the rebound mechanism originates.

The reason for the soft ride on mild uneven surfaces is that, the softer upper set. (something like composite fiber springs).
The reason for the firm ride in more uneven conditions is the lower set coming into action as a helper for the required stability needed.

This could be the reason why the ride is soft and firm in varying conditions.

Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 10th September 2009 at 21:30.
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Old 11th September 2009, 10:06   #117
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Wow, nice looking Jeep, Whicked. I'd love to take a short spin over the next OTR. Were the tyres touching without the 1" spacer?
Hi GTO, how about this sunday in rajmachi the clutch work is done and the engine is also tuned up so i want to check her out. I dont know how it would fit without spacers but i am sure the tyre will touch the chassis because one side of my stopper is broken and the tyre does touch the chassis.
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Old 11th September 2009, 11:05   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Cant something like this be done to increase a Jeep's height?
It will make you feel like you are driving a slab of stone with no suspension.

SPOA is a better way to go.
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Old 11th September 2009, 11:23   #119
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Default Helper Leaf

Hi Santosh,

There are 2 setups
1) Helper above the main spring pack, this prevents the suspension from bottoming out when loaded and the upper leaves help in rebound.

2) The Helper leaves below the spring pack Maruti Omni/Willys MB/Ford GPW when the vehicle is loaded the Helper compresses into the main pack, this is used for smaller loads and to support the main suspension.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 11th September 2009, 16:02   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whicked wheels View Post
Hi GTO, how about this sunday in rajmachi the clutch work is done and the engine is also tuned up so i want to check her out. I dont know how it would fit without spacers but i am sure the tyre will touch the chassis because one side of my stopper is broken and the tyre does touch the chassis.
Hey thanks for the offer, but I can't go out offroading this sunday (family commitments). Look forward to the next.

Meanwhile, the Gurus may continue their technical discussion. Lots to learn...
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