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Old 11th September 2009, 18:35   #121
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One application of this dual pack idea is what it could do for the suspect rear suspension of the Invader. See the quote from Brutus in the ARTICULATING ON ARTICULATION thread below. I am wondering if this application could make the Invader a much more competent off-roader and vehicle.

[[[The reason why the manufacturer chose to do something like this is probably coz the Invader with its shorter wheelbase and higher overall CG (center of gravity), will have more stability problems at fast turns and it even has more of a overhang than a Bolero so no doubt, its going to be tail heavy too, swinging its tail out with the least provocation. The rear suspension mounts of the Invader are on the sides of the chassis rails, unlike the Bolero where the mounts are under the rails. This gives it sort of a natural stabilizer without restricting the wheels travel and flex, but offroad, its a bummer.
The only thing that can be done is to weld the Bolero mounts under the frame, but then you would also have to take care to the axle which in this case is under the spring rather than over it, thereby giving it more height if you mount the springs under the rails. So even the axle has to be moved over the spring or you can move the front axle under the springs too and get about 4" lift]]]

Last edited by DirtyDan : 11th September 2009 at 18:42.
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Old 19th September 2009, 11:29   #122
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Default Raising GC - is it simple as this?

What do you think about this setup to increase GC?

Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-image0119.jpg



My setup on the Gypsy which I plan to Increase
Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-image0131.jpg
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Old 19th September 2009, 14:21   #123
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Dear Headers, pic not clear... can you post a clearer pic? Is it shackle over a shackle???
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Old 23rd December 2009, 07:38   #124
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Default considering fitting helper leaf springs on my Gypsy on the lines of the orange jeep

Dear sirs
I am planning to get the unique double leaf spring suspension setup of Mr. Fazal Ali's orange jeep incorporated in my Gypsy.

Here are some questions that come to my mind :


1] will raising the height by 2-3 inches affect the on road stability of the vehicle
2] will raising height afftect the softness of the suspension in any way. I do not want to compromise the ride quality for the height.
3] i use my gypsy mostly as a daily driving vehicle and take her out to the jungles every weekend for wildlife photography purposes. I also do considerable highway driving - considering my usage, is it advisable for me to go for additional height on the gypsy with regards to on road handling. I do not indulge in hard core offroading with this vehicle but sometimes encounter situations in the jungle where i need the 4 wheel drive.
4] i currently use 205/70/15 profile tires (stock gypsy tires) . will increasing height affect the handliing of d vehicle in any way because of the current tire size. will i need to change tires to get any better ride ( i was anyways thinking of upgrading tires, what size can i consider after the suspension job? )
5] Can some additional lift be achieved by increasing the length of the shackles ? if done, thn what are the drawbacks of the same ?
6] My requirement is a soft suspension and at the same time a reliable suspension setup. what are the future problems that may be expected due to this change to a double leaf with helper setup ?

While reading about this I came across some patents in the US. /here are the pdf's of the details. I could not make much from these pdf's. I request someone knowledgeable to kindly go through these pdf's and enlighten about them.

Finally, is there anyone on this forum who has done a similar modification to his / her's gypsy's suspension ?

regards,
Dr. Abheek Ghosh
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Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-helper.jpg  

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Old 23rd December 2009, 14:24   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abheekg View Post
Dear sirs
I am planning to get the unique double leaf spring suspension setup of Mr. Fazal Ali's orange jeep incorporated in my Gypsy.

Here are some questions that come to my mind :


1] will raising the height by 2-3 inches affect the on road stability of the vehicle
2] will raising height afftect the softness of the suspension in any way. I do not want to compromise the ride quality for the height.
3] i use my gypsy mostly as a daily driving vehicle and take her out to the jungles every weekend for wildlife photography purposes. I also do considerable highway driving - considering my usage, is it advisable for me to go for additional height on the gypsy with regards to on road handling. I do not indulge in hard core offroading with this vehicle but sometimes encounter situations in the jungle where i need the 4 wheel drive.
4] i currently use 205/70/15 profile tires (stock gypsy tires) . will increasing height affect the handliing of d vehicle in any way because of the current tire size. will i need to change tires to get any better ride ( i was anyways thinking of upgrading tires, what size can i consider after the suspension job? )
5] Can some additional lift be achieved by increasing the length of the shackles ? if done, thn what are the drawbacks of the same ?
6] My requirement is a soft suspension and at the same time a reliable suspension setup. what are the future problems that may be expected due to this change to a double leaf with helper setup ?

While reading about this I came across some patents in the US. /here are the pdf's of the details. I could not make much from these pdf's. I request someone knowledgeable to kindly go through these pdf's and enlighten about them.

Finally, is there anyone on this forum who has done a similar modification to his / her's gypsy's suspension ?

regards,
Dr. Abheek Ghosh

Hi,

I'm personally thinking that Fazal sir's setup is good when we are talking about jeep. I'm not too sure about the Gypsy approach the simplest reason in my mind is number of leafs that are existing in the Gypsy compare to the Jeep.

Moreover gypsy is already having only 2-3(i'm no gypsy guy, but in a glance i think it has less leafs) and you will have option to add actually lesser than the actual count in the helper leaf configuration. Hence I doubt if you gain anything out of it.

Secondly the Gypsy setup will be trial one on your vehicle as no one other than you have given a thought about it.

Talking about softer suspension, I think the CFL should come in handy to your need. I have driven a CFL configured Gypsy MPFI king last time in Jawadhu and found it really good.

During our Tada trip, I have seen a blue gypsy lifted too high using lift kits including higher shock absorbers(imported) and SPOA setup etc., but the stability was almost close to nil. Hence I'm sure if you alter the height there is a compromise on the stability but to what extend is considered as acceptable limit is known to guru's in this forum.

Another easiest and safer option is to upgrade your Gypsy's tyres. I don't think you will have any issue on the riding quality but for sure there will be increase in top speed and issues in the speedo meter reading.

The picture below shows GC after tyre upgrade (Yellow gypsy). If i'm not wrong the yellow gypsy is using 235/75 R15

The safest bet to your tyre upgrade would be 215/75 R15 or 220/75 R15
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Old 24th December 2009, 00:52   #126
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Default confused between helper springs 'vs' CFL

I understand the problems that usually come with raising the height .
What I am more interested in finding out is how does the softness of the helper spring system compare with the softness of the CFL setup.
That will help me decide the course of action.
Right now I am really confused whether I go for the tried and tested solution (CFL) or go into uncharted territory (helper springs).
Any help will be highly appreciated.

regards,
Abheek
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Old 24th December 2009, 10:10   #127
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What's the cost for the helper spring mod? I would suggest CFL for rear.
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Old 25th December 2009, 10:49   #128
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Hi,
Could someone post clearer pictures of Fazalaliadils double shackle setup.
Alternately, is Trammway's sketch correct? Can't reconcile the pictures with the sketch drawing.

Sutripta
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Old 26th December 2009, 11:56   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
Could someone post clearer pictures of Fazalaliadils double shackle setup.
Alternately, is Trammway's sketch correct? Can't reconcile the pictures with the sketch drawing.
Sutripta
Sutripta,
The pics. of the setup on the Jeep and up close.
Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-j25.jpg

Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-img_4440.jpg
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Old 26th December 2009, 18:59   #130
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Hi,
Thanks for the picture. And the prompt reply. Still not clear where the left eye (the single ended one) is attached:- to chassis, or to shackle. If to shackle, then reconciled with drawing in post 102.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 26th December 2009, 21:00   #131
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Hi all
I am taking liberty to use the pics from fazal sir's original post and crop them and do some highlight and shadow recovery to tryto get more info about the suspension setup. does it help to get some more info on this ?

Alternatively can fazal sir ask his cousin to get some pics of the part which is not clear and post them here ?

I am still unsure about what I am gonna decide. I'll let this mod spill over to the next year.
Thanks.

regards,
Dr. Abheek Ghosh
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Old 28th December 2009, 18:51   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abheekg View Post

While reading about this I came across some patents in the US. /here are the pdf's of the details. I could not make much from these pdf's. I request someone knowledgeable to kindly go through these pdf's and enlighten about them.

Finally, is there anyone on this forum who has done a similar modification to his / her's gypsy's suspension ?

regards,
Dr. Abheek Ghosh
That patented stuff involves an actuator which pins the freely pivoted helper when required and thus adding to the stiffness.
Seems to be complicated bro....

The key element in Mr.Jinna's creation is the auxiliary shackle's length(pivot to pivot) , which decides when the helper will come into action.
& lets hope that he will share this trade secret.

Siva's and Arka's analysis gave a better idea on its working

Abheek,
Try this mod., only if you mechanic can get a clear understanding of this set up.
My understanding- tune your OE springs to a soft ride & then putting this helper springs(stiff) with calculated shackle lenght to take care of extreme conditions.

I am thinking how a CFL(instead of OE spring) will work along with a helper in Jinna's set-up
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Old 28th December 2009, 22:16   #133
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CFL's for the front dont work well. Have replced 2 sets... some how the correctness in the length & the camber is not perfect... Am still in discussions with doctor Pawar...
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Old 29th December 2009, 00:08   #134
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Here is a setup I saw in Coorg OTR recently. The Jeep is owned by the father of member jeepdude.

It is the same pattern on both sides of the leaf, on all 4 leaf sets. The ride is actually on the firm side. I actually wondered about the puspose of these setup.

Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?-pc203765.jpg

Last edited by Samurai : 29th December 2009 at 00:09.
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Old 29th December 2009, 07:58   #135
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^^
Sharat - the above 3 extra leafs will surely increase the GC by 2-3 inches. But, that [] clamp used to fasten both the upper and lower sets will limit not only the shackle movement of lower, but is totally nil on the upper set.

Do you more pics of a different angle showing the U-Clamp setup?
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